Attacks on a lion for example... what rules should I use?


Rules Questions


Greetings!

I am confused...

On every monster I can see that has natural attacks then it says in for a lion:

OFFENSE
Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +7 (1d8+5 plus grab), 2 claws +7 (1d4+5)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks pounce, rake (2 claws +7, 1d4+5)

I don't understand why the claws also have +7 in attack since according to the universal monster rules then the secondary attacks should have -5 to hit (unless you have multiattack) and only half str bonus to added damage.

Natural Attacks

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.

So basically my question....

Shouldn't the lion have Bite: +7 1d8+5 (Primary) and the claws(secondary) should be +2 and do 1d4+2. I can't see why the monsters doesn't use the universal monster rules as per core rules??

Looking forward to your answers :)

** EDIT ..... I noticed the answer.... both CLAWS and BITE are considered being PRIMARY attacks. So it is just as it should EDIT be **


The claws aren't secondary attack. A monster can have several primary attacks.

This table show which kinds of natural attacks are primary and secondary (there might be specific examples that doesn't follow it).


Can't say I am absolutely certain about this... but a lion is not a donkey. Lions are masses of vicious claws, muscle, bone and teeth, honed for efficient murderizing. Donkeys are designed to run away. As for the text you quote, note that there is nothing that says every attack apart from the first needs to be secondary. Check the animal type description, IIRC.


Here's some history that hopefully explains it.

In 3.5, the first attack of a monster was always the primary attack, and the ones that followed were the secondary ones.

In PF, this changed to be that the attack itself determines if it's primary or secondary. There are some cases where this isn't true (explicit exception, if the normally-secondary attack is the only attack they have, etc).

But claws and bites are primary attacks. They always are unless they are explicitly aren't.

So the lion's attack stats are correct.

... which is what your edit says :D

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