Sorcerer Archetypes

[seiken]

Hello,

Someone in my group is creating a new Sorcerer, and was mentioning the archetypes he was going to choose. Most of our group is new, and I didn't even know archetypes existed for Sorcerers until he mentioned this.

He wants to be crossblooded, and he wants one of his 2 bloodlines to be Wildblooded.

I don't see any info on Sorcerer archetypes in the Core Rules Book or Advanced Player's Guide. In the Ultimate Magic book, however, it lists both of the above mentioned archetypes (but no others), on page 66, and says the following:

"The following section introduces new sorcerer bloodlines, as well as two new sorcerer archetypes..."

The way it flows, I get the feeling that other archetypes have been mentioned somewhere before the Ultimate Magic book was released. Starting on page 69, the book then goes over the 2 archetypes, but doesn't give any general rules for selecting them. With bloodlines, it gives a short summary of what a bloodline is before going into a detailed description of each one.

The problem with this is I am trying to figure out if the guy in my group can actually select both archetypes, and if there would be any penalties for that. He has more knowledge about this stuff from when he used to play D&D 2.0 a long time ago (says he was bad for minmaxing), and I just want to make sure his character is balanced with the rest of the party so they don't feel secondary. I want it to be about fun and roleplay, not about taking advantage of the mechanics to be overpowered in a numbers game.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

[Cheapy]

Sorcerers didn't actually get archetypes until UM. They got new bloodlines in APG, but no real archetypes.

He is able to select both wildblooded bloodlines, as they won't replace the same feature.

In essence, this guy will have 3 archetypes: crossblooded, wildbloodline #1, and wildbloodline #2.

Hope that helps!

[seiken]

Cheapy wrote:

Sorcerers didn't actually get archetypes until UM. They got new bloodlines in APG, but no real archetypes.

He is able to select both wildblooded bloodlines, as they won't replace the same feature.

In essence, this guy will have 3 archetypes: crossblooded, wildbloodline #1, and wildbloodline #2.

Hope that helps!

Thank you. That does help somewhat. Where can I find more info on archetypes? For example, how did you know about the whole "won't replace the same feature" thing?

[Dolanar]

Basic info about all Archetypes & the basic rules associated with them can be found in the APG where Archetypes were originally introduced I believe, beyond that you'd want to check each archetype for its specific rules.

[Cheapy]

You can read about archetypes here, under the Alternate Class Features heading.

Basically, as long as they don't modify all the same class features, he'll be able to "stack" archetypes.

I suppose there's a case that you can't stack the crossblooded and any wildblooded bloodline archetypes, but I'm certain that the intent is that you can mix them.

[Grick]

seiken wrote:

Where can I find more info on archetypes? For example, how did you know about the whole "won't replace the same feature" thing?

Ultimate Magic, Spellcasting Class Options, Alternate Class Features: "A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the base class as another alternate class feature."

[Grick]

Cheapy wrote:

I'm certain that the intent is that you can mix them.

James doesn't seem thrilled about the idea, but basically says yes.

[Michael Sayre]

What might help with your confusion, is to keep in mind that Archetypes aren't really class features, they're sets of alternative class features that replace the standard class build. Most Archetypes have a set of abilitites that replace features you would normally gain. Which features those are, is spelled out in the individual archetype. There's technically no limit (that I'm aware of) on how many archetypes you take, as long as they don't include abilities that replace the same base class feature.

[The black raven]

If your player really wanted to be uber-powerful, he would play another class (say, Bard or Oracle, even Paladin) with a 1-level dip in Sorcerer (crossblooded).

This way you get all of the advantages with a very low drawback.

[seiken]

Thanks again for all the help, everyone.

[james maissen]

The black raven wrote:

If your player really wanted to be uber-powerful, he would play another class (say, Bard or Oracle, even Paladin) with a 1-level dip in Sorcerer (crossblooded).

This way you get all of the advantages with a very low drawback.

Taking a one level dip into a class that essentially grants you the weakest hps, no saves, fewest skills, and no BAB seems to me to be more than 'very low' drawback.

You can make it work in the short term, and in some cases in the long term. But multiclassing like this has to be done with your eyes wide open and a clear vision of where you will go with it.

-James

[Drejk]

seiken wrote:

The problem with this is I am trying to figure out if the guy in my group can actually select both archetypes, and if there would be any penalties for that. He has more knowledge about this stuff from when he used to play D&D 2.0 a long time ago (says he was bad for minmaxing), and I just want to make sure his character is balanced with the rest of the party so they don't feel secondary. I want it to be about fun and roleplay, not about taking advantage of the mechanics to be overpowered in a numbers game.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Crossblooded archetype has the benefit of having Bloodline Arcana of both his bloodlines and can select bonus spells, bonus feats and bloodline powers from both bloodlines but for a hefty price of suffering -2 penalty to Will saving throws (which can be problem for Sorcerers who often can't spare points to get decent Wisdom score) and even heftier price of having one less spell known of each spell level. Which means, that 1st level crossblooded sorcerer knows a single 1st level spell and gets known spells of higher levels later than regular sorcerer - who already gets them later than Clerics, Druids, Witches and Wizards. For example, a crossblooded sorcerer can get +2 points of damage per die on fireball, but he won't get fireball until he reaches seventh level... Humans with their favored class bonus granting them additional spells known can partly counter the problem of reduced number of spells known, but they still suffer greatly from delayed access to higher level spells.