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I’m working out the details of a very broad INT based fighter, but I’ve hit a wall. My end goal is to make a student of war, but I want to do so in a less traditional manner than taking straight-up Lore Warden. To be clear, I’m not interested in optimization, this is a concept build, but I don’t want to become a worthless gimp of a character in the process.
My stumbling block is the knowledge skills. In order to get to the final result, I need to get access to the base of knowledge skills (specifically arcana, dungeoneering, local (which I want to specialize in), nature, planes, and religion).
So that’s my question. Using PFS rules, what other alternatives do I have to get access to the breadth of skills needed while continuing to focus on a melee build with as much BAB as possible?
My ideas so far:
- Lore Warden (not keen on this one) – The Most Obvious Choice.
- Tactician w/ traits (doesn’t get me all the skills)
- Tactician + Order of Tome Cavalier + traits (gets me five of the six but I don’t want a horse & doesn’t fit concept)
- Level of Wizard (loss of BAB + wizard spells aren’t really of interest to me)
- Level of Bard (loss of BAB + not sure I want to be an inspirerer)
- Inquisitor (not quite the concept I was going for, but best I’ve seen so far)
Are there any I’m missing? Multi-classing isn’t a problem as long as it’s conceptually cool.
Have you considered the Student of War PrC from Seekers of Secrets? It's full BAB, but would take till 6th level to start it. It gets Know(all) as class skills. It builds well off a ranger/fighter base class.
Breadth of Experience feat?
For the bard, you could choose the Archaeologist. Dropping the performance for a swift action to grant yourself +1 to attack, damage, skills and saves, usable 4+cha rounds per day. The spells chosen should be a benefit despite low level and low casting stat, so something like feather fall, feather step, expedious retreat, and timely inspiration could be useful.
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Have you considered the Student of War PrC from Seekers of Secrets? It's full BAB, but would take till 6th level to start it. It gets Know(all) as class skills. It builds well off a ranger/fighter base class.
Ammusingly, Student of War is what I indicated I'm going for at the end I am looking for options before that point.
Cosmopolitan feat will get you languages and two knowledge skills I think.
Cosmo and Breadth are awesome Feats.
There's nothing really holding you back from taking ranks in the skills, making them 'trained' skills. You'd be out the +3 class skill bonus, but that's it.
The only major hurdle is the abysmal 2+int mod ranks per level (+human ranks).
Once you cover the cores, (perception, survival, climb, and acrobatics) you're counting on the int. mod to do anything.
If having them as class skills is critically important to you, I'd take the one level bard dip, possibly at 1rst, for the disgusting ranks per level and skill access.
Or just grind through, taking one or two knowledgeable per level to add ranks in.
I guess I'm a little confused on what you need.
If they are not class skills you just don't get a +3 bonus on the skill checks. Doesn't mean you can't take them and be good at them. Then when you get student of war they will be class skills and you will get the +3 bonus.
edit: ninj'd again
There's nothing really holding you back from taking ranks in the skills, making them 'trained' skills. You'd be out the +3 class skill bonus, but that's it.
The only major hurdle is the abysmal 2+int mod ranks per level (+human ranks).
This was my first thought, too.
Cosmopolitan feat will get you languages and two knowledge skills I think.
Yup, Cosmopolitan gets you two knowledge skills as a class skill. Dilettante might also be of use to you.
Between Cosmopolitan, two traits and knowledge (dungeoneering) already being a fighter class skill, you are well on your way. There are several traits that should fit the bill - Child of the temple (religion), Devotee of the Green (nature) and Scholar of the Great Beyond (planes) to name a few.
yep, traits are a good start!
Or buy the feat giving you extra traits and go to town with traits giving you knowledge skills as class skills (and usually a bonus to boot!)
The only thing to watch is that you can't take more than one trait from a given category.
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I fully recognize I can use skills with ranks without having them as a class skill, but combining INT skills and fighting is the concept. That extra +3 (18 points across all six) is just that important to me. Now, I recognize I get all of them with student of war, but since vermiculite is important to me, I want most of them before then.
Cosmopolitan fits the character well, but since I was thinking human breadth of experience will unfortunately not work. I was already looking through the trait list (Absalom Hotspur is certainly on the list) so no problems on that front. Thanks though for the ideas all.
If you do decide to take a minor BAB hit, a dip into alchemist may serve you better than wiz or bard. Arcana and nature to your class skills, mutagen to boost physical attributes, vivisectionist for a minor sneak attack considering Int-based melee combatants tend to like tactical positioning, internal alchemist for a level 1 ability that is just awesome (perhaps I'm biased from almost getting drowned in PFS on Sunday), etc.
EDIT: I know you're dead-set on Student of War, but it really is a subpar PrC for what you get while in the PFS level range. You could get a lot more mileage just making a high BAB, high skill point mostly-fighter build that picks up Kirin Style and its chained combat feats. Possibly a dip into MoMS to run with Kirin and Dragon at the same time for mobility and save boosts.
Well, then maybe take a level of the NPC expert or aristocrat class. That fits the educated concept very well and would also get you a few more points to spend.
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You may also want to consider Additional Traits instead of Cosmopolitan, since the traits tend to have a small bonus in addition to granting a class skill.
For example, your four traits could be Child of the Temple, Mathematical Prodigy, Savannah Child, and World Traveler, which all fit with no conflicts. Together they give you Arcana, Religion, Nature, and Local as class skills and +1 bonus on all those plus Engineering and Nobility. The only things you're missing are History and Planes.
A dip in the NPC class expert might help, especially if you also want Acrobatic as a class skill, Ranger might also be an idea, This template if allowed, maybe Rogue, Barbarian, ...
Dilletante may be worth it for a feat selection. Capping skills at 5 ranks but gaining a +2 bonus on all your know skills should give you a good enough bonus for your special abilities. If needed, just buy a couple cheap mossy disk ioun stones for the most important ones. That would free up some skill ranks for things like acrobatics, perception, etc.
Being able to make DC 15 skill checks for any esoteric know skills you may not have a rank in is bonus.