Paly / sorc / dragon disciple help?


Advice


Hello everyone,

I've been playing around with a few build ideas about a dragon disciple. For sure I already saw Oterisk'guide to the Dragon Disciple and here is what I wanted as a concept that I need help with:

1-I don't want FULL optimization, because the rest of my group won't, so don't want to unbalance everything
2-I want a character that can do damage with spells, but if in melee will still be effective (1/4 - 3/4)
3-I prefer a little bit of diversity over full damage (prefer elemental bloodline to switch fire to ice than just full fire)

Here is what I have so far. We start at level 4, 20 point builds, no items to start with (story):

dragon disciple build

paladin (divine hunter)2/ sorcerer gold dragon/elemental water 2
Human (for extra spell known)
str:17+1=18(level 4)
dex:10
con:14
int:7
wis:7
cha:16+2=18 (racial)

hp:30
skills:
appraise
craft
diplo 1
fly
handle animal
heal
intimidate
knowledge arcana 4
knowledge nobility
knowledge religion
knowledge plane 3
linguistique: 1
profession
ride
sense motive
spellcraft 4
use magic device 1

total 14

fort:9
reflex:4
will:8

feat:
skill focus knowledge plane
arcane strike
eldritch heritage abyssal
5-improve ini
7- quicken (free), extend
9-craft wonderous items
11-sorcerous bloodstrike
13-
15-spell perfection

spell:
lvl 0:
acid splash, prestidigitation, open/close, detect magic, read magic
lvl 1: burning hand, color spray

P.S. skills and saves might be off, don't worry, not so important for the discution right now.


Fire and Water both? Sounds like fun.

I know you aren't terribly interested in being optimal, but I would probably go for a silver and just stick with cold. But options can be useful too. I hope it works out for you.

I would save Quicken Spell for your second bonus spell from DD because you couldn't use it early, and you may not be able to use it much before you get Spell Perfection. Extend spell is also only useful if you plan on using polymorph spells for buffing, I know you haven't gotten to the place where that will be useful, but you might find a better feat and just try to afford a Rod.

Crafting Wondrous Items might not be a good idea for a lot of reasons. You don't have a whole lot of skill points to dump into spellcraft.

You don't get a second first level spell until level 3, and you get your bonus spell too. Since you get burning hands as a bonus anyway then, I would get another spell. Color spray gets less useful around level 4, so I recommend Enlarge Person or a protection spell. Have you worked out your higher level spells too?


Ty for your quick answer.

Switching quicken for later is a really good suggestion that I will change

Extend was more for some buff spells like mage armor and eventually greater magic weapon (In my group, I am the only one that really know stuff about spells since the others are mostly new players) That feat will depend a lot on the gear I'll get I guess.

For spells: I totally forgot that I have burning hand as a bonus, will change it for something else.

For high level spells: I planned absolutly nothing so far.

The question I was not sure about my build: should I stick with 1 element and switch to melee when resistant/immune or should I go for dual element (im gold dragon for fire damage but would take elemental to change it for ice)

Liberty's Edge

One observation: you say you aren't looking to be optimized but you have totally dumped two ability scores and have chosen one of the munchiest sorceror options (dual blooded) just to optimize the DD...

That drive-by smear complete, I've looked into a similar build without the dual-blooded stuff and it still looks nice. Are you planning on Pal2/Sor3 or Pal3/Sor2? Sounds like the former to me.

My plan for a guy at that level included knowing True Strike and Enlarge, the first is Verbal only and the second has a decent duration as a buff cast before entering combat so could be tried in full armour without Arcane Armour Training. True strike combined with trip or bull rush or something cool is a fun option.

Stray observations:
If you're looking to be mostly a caster, then Pal2 isn't that great other than for defenses.
You can leverage Smite Evil a bit by working at ranged through touch spells (rays etc.) or through shocking grasp in melee but doing so puts you in some danger at that level because you're choosing between wearing armour or casting spells without fail.


Paly 2 was mainly for the saves, smite evil and the RP behind it (paladin and gold dragon blood = ultimate good guy). I was hesitating between that and barb 1/sorc 4 (opinion needed?)

Spell wise I won't go FULL blaster, still have to cover some spells for the group (general buff spells) so thats why I want human.

for defense, I was mainly planning no armor, so 10+4(mage armor) + any defense gear I should have. Not sure if thats the best way to go. I'm not 100% convinced about armor training, maybe thats why.

any other thought?


First off you lose your blood line as soon as you take level one of dragon disipel. And it becomes dragon. Second the min maxing stats makes this unplayable for int of 7 mean IQ of 70 witch is forest gump level. Second he should only have 8 skill points. Level 4 2skill point per level human +1 -1 dum int. that to me is like play box of rocks.
I would go pal 9 dragon disipel 10 sor 1. Pal 4 sor 1 till you take dragon d then back forth 2 dragon 1 pal. Next look at what roll you want to fill you are not beater BaB is to low behind curve do to the lost of 4. You basically swap pal spell for sor. Ok fine better spells but now you have to deal with arcane spell failure in armor. Improved int drop if can not get to + 6 total do not get in to race. I assume abyssal for + to str that 3 feats for + 2 each if you play till level 19. Long pay off for 3 feats. Why UMD. ? You have pal list and sor list what more do you want. You need more spell craft it you want to be a crafter. The spell know is small to crafter. Watch your action use arcane strike and quicken spell or both swift.

Sovereign Court

You should consider things like Weapon Focus and Power Attack in my humble opinion. Boosting up your to hit rolls is always good. Not tanking your Int, Wis and Dex to that degree, maybe grab a buff spell like shield perhaps.

Pally 3 would be awesome too for fearlessness and diseaselessness, and your first mercy.


question: paly 2 for save and smite evil

OR

barbarian 2 with rage power lesser fiend totem: gore attack as a primary (so gore, claw, claw....and eventually gore bite claw claw)


Some quick comments

I would seriously worry about that will save early on your taking a massive hit to it (-2 from wis and -2 from crossblooded), double dipping strong will save classes like you are is only just bringing you back up to par, means Barb is completely off the menu (Barb1/sorc4 has a will save of +0 with your stats even with paladin your looking at +6 at level 4)

Starting as a level 4 with an AC of 10 is risky (no items and no AC increasing spells).

Why are you dipping eldritch heritage abyssal for claws? without actually taking the ST boosting 2nd feat? as without the ST boost its 2 feats for more claws, with the ST boost 3 feats for a ST boost and claws (still uninspiring for me but some people swear by it)

Human for the spell known isnt worth it with your build, as once you hit DD level you actually cease to gain favored class bonuses, and thus get no real boost to your casting (level 1,2,3 you get new cantrips, level 4 which you never get gives you a new first level spell). You could argue human for the feat and the extra skill point and I would buy that I guess, but the spells known arent even worth mentioning for a DD build


totally forgot about the fact that I won't have favored class, good point. If im going barb sorc, for sure the will save will change at that time your right on that.

As for lvl 4 with no items, its just temporary for the beginning of the campaign. Its just that I won't start with stuff, so can't choose them in advance.

I will switch for Half elf.

So far I think ill rearange my stats, lower charisma a bit and use spell with no DC (scorching ray, etc) with a few point in dex. More to come

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