Scarred Witch Doctor + Rage?

[Serisan]

Relevant texts:

Rage wrote:

While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.

Scarred Witch Doctor wrote:

Constitution Dependent: A scarred witch doctor uses

Constitution instead of Intelligence when determining
the highest level of spells she can cast, her spell save DCs,
number of spells known at 1st level, and any effects of her
hexes normally determined by her Intelligence.

I'll definitely grant that spells are right out. What about Hexes, though? They are {Su} abilities, so they don't really require concentration (at least, not concentration checks). You could argue certainly that defensive Hexes require some degree of patience, but what about Misfortune or Evil Eye?

Alternatively, I guess you could just grab Urban Barbarian, but the "patience or concentration" line is not removed from Controlled Rage.

[Marthian]

where's that archtype? To me, it kind of seems overpowered considering CON affects HP and fortitude saves.

[blackbloodtroll]

Advanced Race Guide. It is Orc only. It makes Orc casters, well, worth it.

[Serisan]

So...Any opinions on this bad boy?

[Richard Leonhart]

GM call, but I would vote for yes on hexes that use a standard action (no patience) and are SU (no concentration).

[blackbloodtroll]

Hexes, yes. Spells, no.

[fictionfan]

Why wouldn't spells work? Now they are constitution based. Rage casting has been a term in use for a while now.

[MrSin]

Urban Barbarians can cast while raging can't they? If I remember right.

[fictionfan]

The rage ability does not actually say you can't cast spells. It does say that you can't use mental based skills which might include spells most of the time, but the Scarred Witch Doctor uses con as it's casting stat.

[blackbloodtroll]

No. Spells require concentration.

That is why spells have things like concentration checks.

You need special class features to cast whilst raging.

Supernatural abilities require no concentration, and are specified as not requiring it in the description of Supernatural abilities.

This is a year old thread.

I am, somewhat, surprised to see it necro'd.

[Jiraiya22]

So what about Urban Barbarians?

Controlled Rage (Ex):

When an urban barbarian rages, instead of making a normal rage she may apply a +4 morale bonus to her Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. This bonus increases to +6 when she gains greater rage and +8 when she gains mighty rage. She may apply the full bonus to one ability score or may split the bonus between several scores in increments of +2. When using a controlled rage, an urban barbarian gains no bonus on Will saves, takes no penalties to AC, and can still use Intelligence-, Dexterity-, and Charisma-based skills. This ability otherwise follows the normal rules for rage.

It doesn't retract the "While in rage, a barbarian cannot use...any ability that requires patience or concentration" line but with Dex based skills like Disable Device and Int ones like Knowledge History back on the table it seems like this is just an oversight and that casting should once again be possible.

I think it's certain that you can use whatever supernatural Witch Hex you want as many Barbarian Rage Powers are supernatural abilities, obviously just being a supernatural ability doesn't automatically make an ability require patience or concentration. Any Witch Hex that mimics a spell should be excluded though.

[blackbloodtroll]

Hexes, that are Supernatural, can be done whilst in Rage.

Spells cannot be cast whilst in Rage.

Urban Barbarian's Controlled Rage changes neither of these truths.

Controlled Rage adds what it says it adds, but is otherwise restricted to what is normally allowed whilst raging.

[Corrado marcucci]

Not sure if this will help but I'm running a Scarred Witch doctor in our home game and as a general rule any ability or spell or feat or skill that would use Int for the witch we switch out for Con.

Rule is: A scarred witch doctor uses Constitution instead of Intelligence when determining the highest level of spells she can cast, her spell save DCs, number of spells known at 1st level, and any effects of her hexes normally determined by her Intelligence.

It would seem on the surface that the witch doctor is over powered, but you really don't build them the same as you would a regular witch. They tend, in my opinion, to be more secondary melee then a controller as the witch usualy is.

[Makos]

Bloodrager (or barbarian with moment of clarity) + Mad Magic (feat) + Scarred Witchdoctor = win.

That is what I am playing with this guy.

[Bronnwynn]

Half Orc Alchemist 1/Bloodrager 1/Scarred Witch Doctor X with alch and bloodrager archetypes to taste... so much con pump you'll fall asleep everytime. And they can still cast all those nice witch spells they get - albeit a spell level behind a purist, but with a save DC up to 3 higher if they deem it necessary.