How do I make them stand a chance?


Advice


ok so I wanna make encounters using goblins or kobolds. My pc's each have 20 or above ac. I do not want to increase the cr of the creatures a bit so they can face a lot of them because I see as they are they wont pose a significant challenge to them at all and I don't like to fudge rolls unless I made a mistake and made the challenge too hard. even if I use just one powered up one or 3 I don't see it being significant enough so please help.

The Exchange Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Alchemists fire... Goblins and kobolds are both nasty with it. It's also a metered mayhem, you can give each goblin/ kobold a few flasks so they can't wipe out the party.

Liberty's Edge

I agree with dennis, that will allow for some hits, of further coolness, if party AC's are sitting in the low 20's throw a Bard in with them for Inspire Courage, or a cleric to cast bless. Both of these will raise attack levels by 1, 2 with a higher level bard.


saw something with kobolds about npc class levels, how does that work? how bout masterwork items? how bout changing feats to weapon focus and/or finesse? saw something in creating npc and using different stats array? I know I had some ideas but wondering how they would work. great ideas guys, I never really thought bout the alchemist fire thing but i did think of using poison. by the way the pcs are 5th level and im kinda a new dm. would any of this affect cr or have a small effect on cr? i really don't like wimpy encounters.

Sovereign Court

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Don't forget they can also use Aid Another to increase each others attack rolls.


Just give them class levels, that's what I do. I had a 17th level party terrified of a dual cleaver wielding goblin. The worst possible thing would (IMO) be giving them all 2-3 class levels of rogue. If there is enough of them it turns into a PC blender.


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Pack tactics.

You don't really have to add the NPC or PC class levels to them (which would, by the way, affect the CR quite significantly, depending on number of "leveled" critters you use). All you have to do is "think like a pack of goblins". Here are several tactics that my goblins commonly use:

Hit and Run: They will show up, let loose a volley of arrows, bolts or whatever other projectiles they have, then run away.

Cannon Fodder: Groups of goblins will charge in, assume either defensive posture or even go full defense and delay / corner PCs while other Goblins pepper them with ranged attacks, reach attacks with polearms, alchemists fires etc.

Surgical Strike: Goblin gangs will team up to swarm what look like most vulnerable (non-armored, lightly armed) party members, jointly tackle, grapple and bring them down, then stick 'em full of daggerholes.

Traps, Traps Everywhere: If goblins are playing on the home field, they're bound to use the home field advantage. From installing every possible type of trap they can think of to using pre-existing terrain features such as dense overgrowth, low ceilings, slippery or difficult terrain etc, if it's an option, they'll use it.

...and then you start combining the above. They will taunt and provoke your party to pursue them - through traps and movement-hindering terrain, all the while hitting the party's flanks with volleys of ranged attacks. Then they'll use the cannon fodder to ensure that PCs stay in one place until an inricate, "takes time to go off" trap such as landslide or a cage of rabid beasts goes off. Then, while your fighters are busy dealing with those rabid wombats, they'll sneak up on the party's back and quickly take down the wizard.

If you want to get worse, go with above and start adding in PC class levels; in combination with above, even a 1st level caster can wreak havoc with a couple of Greases, Obscuring Mists or illusions; an alchemist will make party wish GM was dead and boy, wait 'till you see their faces when they get hit by a couple of raging goblin barbarians.

A well-planned and executed attack by a large group of low-CR intelligent monsters could easily be one of biggest nightmares for any group, regardless of CR. Sure, there'll be no massive blows that leave party's AC 25, 75 HP fighter dead in the dust, but the engagement will whittle away at the party, forcing them to waste spells and other resources, bleeding them dry very gradually.


Teamwork feats might be a good idea to look at.


Use lots of traps, throw in a few that are weight-based. This will allow the kobolds to fight and when they run, they PCs have to deal with the traps. While dealing with the traps they will also have to deal with the kobolds using touch attacks (alchemists fire, tanglefoot bags, etc) and pack tactics (aid another is their best friend).

Reading up on kobolds, this is their Organization:

Organization solitary, gang (2–4), nest (5–30 plus equal number of noncombatants, 1 sergeant of 3rd level per 20 adults, and 1 leader of 4th–6th level), or tribe (31–300 plus 35% noncombatants, 1 sergeant of 3rd level per 20 adults, 2 lieutenants of 4th level, 1 leader of 6th–8th level, and 5–16 dire rats)

This is written in their description:

Quote:
While they may speak loudly of divine right and manifest destiny, kobolds are keenly aware of their own weakness. Cowards and schemers, they never fight fair if they can help it, instead setting up ambushes and double-crosses, holing up in their warrens behind countless crude but ingenious traps, or rolling over the enemy in vast, yipping hordes.

This should give you some ideas on how they fight/defend their homes.

You can use this calculator to help make sure you don't overwhelm the party.


They are Snall creatures. PCs will likely have to squeeze to get into their tunnels. Then they have smaller tunnels they have to squeeze to get into....


Have a few throw nets - even without the weapon proficiency it's easy to hit with them (ranged touch, I believe) and gives the target a pretty significant debuff (entangled condition).

Sovereign Court

one word when it comes to Kobolds, traps. Make sure the places the PCs fight them are interesting too!


tonyz wrote:
They are Snall creatures. PCs will likely have to squeeze to get into their tunnels. Then they have smaller tunnels they have to squeeze to get into....

+1

Size is everything. Put in choke points and escape points for the goblins or kobolds. Take something as simple as a hallway. A few small holes that they can fit through that are a tight squeeze for them can put them on the other side of the walls, once in the smaller tunnels that network around the hallway they reign oil through the small holes in the ceiling, fire crossbows through the small holes in the sides of the tunnel.

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