Can my Eidolon commit Hara-kiri? And other questions...


Rules Questions


Hi - quick Eidolon/game rule/questions - thanks in advance for any help.

1. Can an Eidolon commit hara-kiri? ("Spot - I need you gone so I can summon more elementals - take a break!" "K boss - cya!" <gurk>)

(Basically to save you a standard action of dismissing)

2. Seriously - if he kills himself with a knife that he carries, where does the knife go? And when you re-summon him next day, can it be sheathed?

3. Is the assumption of #2 correct - that equipment/items carried by the Eidolon disappear when he is dismissed/killed, and reappear upon its summoning?

4. Could an Eidolon, upon creation, be given Feats that are unknown in the current world (example, gunsmithing)?

5. Can an Eidolon take traits (via the Feat extra-traits)?

(spelling edited :)


Hara kiri


Alitan wrote:

Hara kiri

or to be more exact, hara-kiri, and while I do thank you for that bit of spell-checking, it doesn't quite help with the question :)


1. I would say it's a coup de grace. If he dies, then you succeeded and saved a standard action. Otherwise try again. But don't forget that if he dies, he comes back at half hit points.

2. He's wielding it at the time of his death, so it would probably go with him. Sheathing it could go either way. Is he able to sheath it while in it's home plane?

3. Yes.

4. Ask your GM.

5. I would say that they would have to be relevant to the eidolon. For example Adopted and Bullied wouldn't make sense. And most, if not all (in the APG) wouldn't. Unless you say that he was bullied by other outsiders.


Blodox wrote:
1. I would say it's a coup de grace. If he dies, then you succeeded and saved a standard action. Otherwise try again. But don't forget that if he dies, he comes back at half hit points.

Which may be more than what he had prior to stabbing himself, after all...


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Blodox wrote:


5. I would say that they would have to be relevant to the eidolon. For example Adopted and Bullied wouldn't make sense. And most, if not all (in the APG) wouldn't. Unless you say that he was bullied by other outsiders.

Well in the specific case I would argue that Bullied fits the bill perfectly, given that the Eidolon is connected to a Summoner, who forces it to commit suicide just to save himself a few seconds of inconvenience...


Attrition wrote:
Alitan wrote:

Hara kiri

or to be more exact, hara-kiri, and while I do thank you for that bit of spell-checking, it doesn't quite help with the question :)

Well, I don't mean to be too much of a pr*ck about it, I don't have interest in or answers for the questions... But that misspelling has been irritating me for YEARS.

On examination, *I* wouldn't let the eidolon transport anything back and forth among the planes. It isn't an extraplanar piggy bank. But that's just me.


-1. Can an Eidolon commit hara-kiri?-

An eidolon does anything that his master tells it to do if that action can be done by his form and abilities. The eidolon would kill himself and would use the same rules that characters would to do so. Note that this might be an alignment violation depending on the Summoners alignment and how the GM views 'killing oneself' or ordering something to kill themselves. I am thinking this would be rare though.

Note that the eidolon would not be summonable until the next day and would return with only 1/2 max HP's since it would have died.

-2. Seriously - if he kills himself with a knife that he carries, where does the knife go? And when you re-summon him next day, can it be sheathed?-

All additional items past the eidolon itself drop to the ground. The magic summons the eidolon. When the eidolon is dismissed or dies the eidolon is sent where it came from and nothing else.

-3. Is the assumption of #2 correct - that equipment/items carried by the Eidolon disappear when he is dismissed/killed, and reappear upon its summoning?-

Eidolons do not give you free safe extradimensional storage of equipment or items. They are summoned/conjured naked and return the same.

-4. Could an Eidolon, upon creation, be given Feats that are unknown in the current world (example, gunsmithing)?-

That can only be ruled on by your GM. Ask them. There is no RAW rule stating that an eidolon can know things that your GM may or may not have limited for his campaign.

-5. Can an Eidolon take traits (via the Feat extra-traits)?-

An eidolon is a class feature and not a character in it's own right. It cannot take traits. As for the feat extra traits, that question can again, only be answered by your GM. I would be inclined to say no since the feat still operates under the same assumptions that traits do, but it is a feat and eidolon's can take any feat they qualify for. Only your games GM can rule if they qualify for that or not.

Liberty's Edge

I gotta say, if I were the GM and a player told his eidolon to kill itself, there would be consequences. I'm not sure what those consequences would be, but there would be consequences.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

The death of an eidolon is not a matter that in and of itself should affect alignment -- after all, eidolons are among the few creatures in the game for whom death is a temporary inconvenience rather than the end. However, being killed is painful, so there had better be a good reason for making an eidolon go through it. Having your eidolon hold off a powerful monster while the party flees is one thing, but having it off itself just to save the summoner a single round's standard action is quite another.

In character, remember that summoner and eidolon have a telepathic link. You had better believe that the eidolon will describe to you in great detail the pain he is going through as he kills himself.


Apart from the fact that you mean "Seppukku" rather than Hara Kiri there is nothing in the rules about suicide so coup-de-gras would be my judgement as well.

However a Summoner would have to cope with the fact that his Eidolon would be more reluctant to come to his aid if ordered repeatedly to inflict grieveous harm upon itself.


TheconielI wrote:
gotta say, if I were the GM and a player told his eidolon to kill itself, there would be consequences. I'm not sure what those consequences would be, but there would be consequences.

Personally, I would do a night raid the night after this happened. Make it a doozy and then look at the summoner expectantly as he fails to contribute much to fight. Normally I'm against tailoring a fight against a player, but that just screams opportunity for the BBEG to take advantage with a raid.


I have a question that seems to somehow fit this threat but will take it in a slightly different direction. Our current campaign, in which I am playing a summoner, my eidolon has gained a negative level. This is a problem given the low level of the game, but the real question is....what happens to an eidolon if it gains enough negative levels to reduce it to 0 hit dice?


Hessef wrote:
I have a question that seems to somehow fit this threat but will take it in a slightly different direction. Our current campaign, in which I am playing a summoner, my eidolon has gained a negative level. This is a problem given the low level of the game, but the real question is....what happens to an eidolon if it gains enough negative levels to reduce it to 0 hit dice?

1) If it got negative levels equal to its HD, the Eidolon dies.

2) If the Eidolon dies, it returns to its homeplane.

3) It can be called/summoned as normal, but as long as the negative levels remain, it will die as soon as it get here.

This give you one or two option, depending on the GM:

A) Wait until it get extra HD to exceed the number of negative levels. Then it is able to return and be restored.

B) As a GM I would allow the summoner to call the Eidolon, and have restoration cast the following round. This can be done for raising people, so it would be fair for Eidolons as well.


Actually, I'm all for B.

Same if you lost your Eidolon due to Con Drain (which, IIRC, doesn't go away on its own, either)

Silver Crusade

I'd certainly roll with B as well.

As to the OP question....I can't help but worry that this would become a thing for certain players. It's a bit too....snuff-y for comfort. Especially if this is practiced regularly..

Grand Lodge

Gilfalas wrote:
-2. Seriously - if he kills himself with a knife that he carries, where does the knife go?

It falls to the ground in the eidolon's previously occupied space. It's kind of hard to gut yourself and sheathe your weapons afterward.

And no, an Eidolon can't take feats for which it does not qualify, any more than the character can. It certainly can't take feats THAT DON'T EXIST.


LazarX wrote:

And no, an Eidolon can't take feats for which it does not qualify, any more than the character can. It certainly can't take feats THAT DON'T EXIST.

I would be more lenient on this. Sure the Eidolon can take the Gunsmithing feat... But I might warn you that since guns doesn't exist in the game world, then the chances are non-existing that you'll get your hands on the Gunsmith's Kit required to actually use the feat..

Grand Lodge

HaraldKlak wrote:
LazarX wrote:

And no, an Eidolon can't take feats for which it does not qualify, any more than the character can. It certainly can't take feats THAT DON'T EXIST.

I would be more lenient on this. Sure the Eidolon can take the Gunsmithing feat... But I might warn you that since guns doesn't exist in the game world, then the chances are non-existing that you'll get your hands on the Gunsmith's Kit required to actually use the feat..

I am NEVER lenient when it comes to a spellcasting class. If you want to see why so many people complain thier worlds spiral out of control power wise, leniency on magic is most likely to be the reason.


HaraldKlak wrote:

A) Wait until it get extra HD to exceed the number of negative levels. Then it is able to return and be restored.

B) As a GM I would allow the summoner to call the Eidolon, and have restoration cast the following round. This can be done for raising people, so it would be fair for Eidolons as well.

Basically you are giving the summoner only option A, since restoration has a 1 minute cast time.


C) Travel to the outer planes, find the Eidolon, and give it the restoration in-person.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Option D) Ask Cleric to cast Restoration concurrently with your summoning ritual. Both will complete in 1 minute.


Gignere wrote:
HaraldKlak wrote:

A) Wait until it get extra HD to exceed the number of negative levels. Then it is able to return and be restored.

B) As a GM I would allow the summoner to call the Eidolon, and have restoration cast the following round. This can be done for raising people, so it would be fair for Eidolons as well.

Basically you are giving the summoner only option A, since restoration has a 1 minute cast time.

Well, it is correct that it doesn't quite fit. I based it on negative levels and raise dead. In both circumstances I wouldn't have a problem ruling that start casting, on the round it returns, is fine.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Isn't the answer to the negative level in the FAQ, namely that they would come back with their hit dice in negative levels, minus one, allowing them to live?

Liberty's Edge

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Can an Eidolon commit hara-kiri?

Why woud and Eidolon want to send a baseball announcer to a mental institution?

Besides I think hara kiri died a few years ago. I think his son still calls games for the Braves though. I think he is hara kiri Jr.

;)

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