We had a situation in our last session where one of the characters was invisible in front of a stairwell. An ally double moved and finished his movement in the same square as the invisible ally. What happens in that situation?
Most likely the double moving pc would bump into the invisible pc and end his movement one square behind the invisible one.
- Try to enter
- bump
- step back into the square he came from
Most likely the double moving pc would bump into the invisible pc and end his movement one square behind the invisible one.
- Try to enter
- bump
- step back into the square he came from
I play with a group that has play all the versions of D&D; that being said, is there a rule in Pathfiner that would allow an invisible ally to allow another ally to move through their square without the moving ally knowing the invisible ally is there
You can always move through an ally's square and I don't think there is anything specific that suggests doing so would give you any special information about the ally being there.
You can always move through an ally. You can also move thru an enemy if they are helpless or they let you.
I would give a free Perception check to notice an invisible creature in this case and I'd call it a +5 easier (since the creature is moving out of your way).
You can't though end your movement in somebody's square. I don't know any specific rule that covers what happens when you do. I'd give the invisible creature a 5' step to move away.
The RAW specifically states you can't end your movement in a space with another creature. On the other hand, a square is FIVE FEET by FIVE FEET. That's pretty darn big.
As such, I would not be averse to allowing two willing Medium creatures to squeeze into one space and suffer the squeezing penalties (-4 to attack and -4 to AC). After all, if there were a wall in the middle of the space turning it into two half squares, it would be perfectly legal - why not allow it without the wall there?
If the two creatures aren't both willing, I'd call that a grapple.
We have "almost" run into a similar scenario several times in our games. My bard who has vanish has made liberal use of the spell lately in close quarters. We haven't had to make a ruling just yet, but I suspect we will in the near future. Were I to rule on a similar situation if I were DMing, I would say the two PC's could opt to squeeze into the same square or else the PC moving into the square would bump into the invisible PC and have to go back a square.
The really tricky bit is what happens if there are no squares available (in other words, all squares are occupied except for the invisible PC's square)? In that case, I would force the moving PC to pick a square and that is where they land, squeezing in with the other PC.
You can always move through an ally. You can also move thru an enemy if they are helpless or they let you.
I would give a free Perception check to notice an invisible creature in this case and I'd call it a +5 easier (since the creature is moving out of your way).
You can't though end your movement in somebody's square. I don't know any specific rule that covers what happens when you do. I'd give the invisible creature a 5' step to move away.
That's what we did and took away their 5ft step in the next turn - he didn't want to noticed.
But in hind site I agree Umbranus - bump into the the invisible ally and stop in the previous square.
Then again, when your in a 10' hallway with you whole party around, I like Gbonehead's comment about squeezing
We have "almost" run into a similar scenario several times in our games. My bard who has vanish has made liberal use of the spell lately in close quarters. We haven't had to make a ruling just yet, but I suspect we will in the near future. Were I to rule on a similar situation if I were DMing, I would say the two PC's could opt to squeeze into the same square or else the PC moving into the square would bump into the invisible PC and have to go back a square.
The really tricky bit is what happens if there are no squares available (in other words, all squares are occupied except for the invisible PC's square)? In that case, I would force the moving PC to pick a square and that is where they land, squeezing in with the other PC.
I personally run it that the onus of not being detected lies on the invisible character and not the visible one. Basically, I force the squeezing penalties onto the invisible character and not the visible one (who probably doesn't know he's sharing a square with someone and therefore is just acting normal).
I also have the invisible character move to the nearest available square (going back in the direction he came from) before invoking squeezing. Since action during rounds takes place more or less simultaneously, it makes sense to me that an invisible creature would see the incoming visible creature and could change which square to stop in.
We've had it happen a couple of times and that's the way we've handled it, which has worked well for us. The players like it and it doesn't seem to unbalance anything.
If the two creatures aren't both willing, I'd call that a grapple.
In 3.5, yes. In PRPG, no: Grapple no longer involves being in the same square.
If one creauture isn't willing, then I'd just follow the rules for when a character ends their movement in a non-legal square:they are ejected to the closest legal square they had passed thru.
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Ending Your Movement: You can't end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.
Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space: Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it's not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there's a legal position that's closer.
There is no rules option to voluntarily squeeze with another creature in a square. In OP's example, the character who attempted to end his move in the invisible ally's square instead ends his movement in the square he attempted to leave just prior to entering the invisible ally's square.
Note that Ratfolk can occupy a square with another Ratfolk though. Which means you could have Ratfolk A invisible, and Ratfolk B ending his movement in that square, then they can surprise attack the enemy in front of them. If Ratfolk B has invisibility, he not only get's his flanking bonus, but the enemy is flat footed against him, and has to deal with two enemies that look like one enemy. :)
Even worse, two greater invisibility ratfolk in the same square. :)
Note that Ratfolk can occupy a square with another Ratfolk though. Which means you could have Ratfolk A invisible, and Ratfolk B ending his movement in that square, then they can surprise attack the enemy in front of them. If Ratfolk B has invisibility, he not only get's his flanking bonus, but the enemy is flat footed against him, and has to deal with two enemies that look like one enemy. :)
Even worse, two greater invisibility ratfolk in the same square. :)
Now there's a thought! *evil grin*
Any thoughts about if the visible character is using the charge action to attack an opponent and wants to end in the square occupied by an invisible ally not realizing the ally in in that square.