trip bard

[Allyssa Silvermyst]

I was fortunate enough to get a boon to play a kitsune char and after seeing their stats have decided to make a bard. I was planning to take agile maneuvers at first level as well for my feat . My plan is to use the whip at range to trip enemies in melee with my group. Are there any other rules or things i should think of when making this bard as i have never played one before . my plan is to have her very skill orientated and trip during combats as well as buff/de-buff. Any help or info would be greatly appreciated .

[Mort the Cleverly Named]

Well, first off, you can actually use Weapon Finesse instead of Agile Maneuvers to use your Dexterity when tripping with a whip if you prefer. It would be a better choice if you want to stab someone with a rapier, but would have the disadvantage of making it more difficult to trip when completely unarmed.

I'd recommend planning your feats out ahead of time, as Bards don't get that many and whipping and tripping can both be expanded on endlessly. You'll absolutely want Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Greater Trip, but there are tons of others (Fury's Fall, Improved Disarm, Whip Mastery) that you may or may not want to take. Don't forget Discordant Voice as well, on the grounds that that is just great for Bards in general.

Skills are pretty basic. The only advice I would give is to have at least one audible and one visable form of performance, in case of darkness or silence. Also, plan to get a couple of really good skills with your first Versatile Performance (Oratory for Diplomacy and Sense Motive is popular), and something you can live six levels without for your second (like Percussion for Handle Animal and Intimidate). Also, one rank in every knowledge to get maximum benefit out of Bardic Knowledge.

[Allyssa Silvermyst]

thanks Mort . I will go and look into those right now and start to form a plan for feats then . i was told however weapon finesse would allow me to use dex for hitting a target but not for adding it to my CMB to trip, for that I would need agile maneuvers ?

[Mort the Cleverly Named]

The person that told you that made an honest mistake. While it does infringe a bit on Agile Maneuvers as a feat, you can indeed use Weapon Finesse with weapon maneuvers. It is explained here, straight from the SKR's mouth.

[Allyssa Silvermyst]

hmmm ok got a note from someone saying to use the whip like Indiana Jones . :) ... That sounds very interesting as well .. So feats for each build .. since I have to decide here ...

trip bard
1 agile maneuvers
3 combat expertise
5 improved trip
7 greater trip
9 combat reflexes
11 discordant voice

fun IJ bard

1 weapon finesse whip
3 weapon focus whip
5 whip mastery
7 improved whip mastery
9 improved disarm
11 discordant voice

I know my feats may be horribly put together . any help would be appreciated .. thanks

[Allyssa Silvermyst]

ok that makes sense .. thanks Mort .. I will substitute that then into my feats instead of agile maneuvers. Does it work for all combat maneuvers or just trip specifically ? Who knows I may want to whip grapple something .. lolol

[Mort the Cleverly Named]

Well, in the first build, combat reflexes does very little for you. Despite their reach, whips don't threaten without Improved Whip Mastery. So you won't be able to take advantage of the Greater Trip or movement Attacks of Opportunity yourself. Not that it is the end of the world, as I'm sure rest of your party will be happy to use the opportunity to chop your enemies into pieces for you.

For the second build, you have a couple of errors. You don't need to take Weapon Finesse for an individual weapon anymore, so it should just be Weapon Finesse, not Weapon Finesse (Whip). Also, you can't take Improved Disarm without Combat Expertise. You should probably grab Combat Reflexes instead, so you can take more advantage of that 10' reach.

Otherwise, they are pretty much standard whip-bard builds. It is tough getting all those feats, so many people end up being human (for the extra feat) or going with high strength (to avoid weapon finesse/agile maneuvers), making it unfortunate that neither is an option for you. Looking at the lists, I'd almost even (*gasp*) tell you to ignore my previous advice on Discordant Voice, just so you can fill out your chosen style a bit more thoroughly.

Mechanically, the first one is probably stronger, owing to the +4 to trip attempts and ability to provoke AoO for your friends. However, the "being Indiana Jones" aspect of the second build would also be pretty darn cool.

EDIT: It works for all maneuvers performed with a weapon. So Trip, Disarm, and Sunder, generally. Whip Grappling too, if you have the feats for that.

[Allyssa Silvermyst]

thanks Mort .. so I think I will go with the second one then. The Kitsune get a +2 to acrobatics so being able to grasp things and swing on the whip gives me plenty of evil ideas ... :). i do however agree the first build would be fun .. ohh look the boss got tripped while flanked by our barbarian and rogue :). Thanks again so much for your help ..