Continual flame in PFS - can it be "Continual"?

[nosig]

Is there any way to get a Continual Flame cast on an item, either by paying an NPC to cast it, or having a PC cast it or whatever... that will last from game to game?

Perhaps as a Boon? (that thread is just to big at this point)

I have a PC that casts it at the start of each game he plays. He casts it on an Ioun Stone (and thus has something that LOOKS like an Ioun Torch - but isn't just an Ioun Torch), pays the 50 GP and does this at the start of each scenario he plays. 'Cause it's unique and Kewl.

I have a PC that would like to have it cast on the lining of a cloak or cape, so that flames appear to fill the cloak... and I guess I can use a scroll of it and try to UMD it at the start of each adventure... and maybe take a few ranks in Craft Tailor/Seamstress... and "make it" each scenario...

But I figured I'd toss it out to the smart gamer geeks here. Any suggestions?

[Andrew Christian]

Nope, no currently way to make it permanent in PFS, as all permanent effects return to normal at the end of a session.

[Eric Brittain]

Currently there is no way to have Continual Flame last from session to session. As soon as the gaming session ends so does the continual flame effect.

[Jiggy]

On the other hand, the possibility of paying 50gp per session to have a flaming codpiece is still pretty good deal.

[nosig]

Jiggy wrote:

On the other hand, the possibility of paying 50gp per session to have a flaming codpiece is still pretty good deal.

yeah,yeah and the fact that you detect (to a detect magic) as "having evocation magic in your pants"... I've heard this joke before (still makes people laugh at the table though).

and makes you a real hit at the Paracountesses parties...

[Katisha]

problem is, it's a Sorcerer/Wizard 2nd, and Cleric 3rd level spell... so my Bard can only cast it with UMD... Scroll 150+50 GP for each casting...

[Alizor]

Buy an everburning torch for 110 gp. It's from the Core Rulebook, under the Special Substances and Items section (page 160). As written it is has continual flame cast on it. Note that because it is a base item it's the wizard spell at level 2, not the cleric 3 version.

However, yes, having the spell cast on an item whether by an NPC or PC will have the effect end at the end of the scenario.

[nosig]

Kyle Pratt wrote:

Buy an everburning torch for 110 gp. It's from the Core Rulebook, under the Special Substances and Items section (page 160). As written it is has continual flame cast on it. Note that because it is a base item it's the wizard spell at level 2, not the cleric 3 version.

However, yes, having the spell cast on an item whether by an NPC or PC will have the effect end at the end of the scenario.

Thank you Kyle - I realize that an everburning torch and an Ioun torch both have Continual Flame cast on them. I was trying to see if there was any way the rules geeks here could come up with one cast on a different item...

I do have a PC who currently casts it at the start of each adventure he plays (has each game from level 5 to now level 10).
I would like to be able to do this with my Bard... but how?

1) buying a scroll each game and UMD it... DC would be 22?

2) buy a scroll each game and have a fellow party member cast it (Cleric or Wizard).

3)... I just thought of this... can my PC hire an NPC to cast it at the start of each adventure? Cost would be what?

[Sniggevert]

nosig wrote:

3)... I just thought of this... can my PC hire an NPC to cast it at the start of each adventure? Cost would be what?

Yep. It'd be 60gp + components for a wizard to do it, or 150gp + components for the cleric.

[Alizor]

Cost of hired NPCs is spell level x caster level x 10 plus any additional costs. In this case it would be 2x3x10+50 = 110 gp, the same as the torch.

[Seraphimpunk]

the Light Orison/Cantrip is just as good as Continual flame for society play. 10 min/level infinity times per day. Or just buy the magic item with Continual Light already cast on it if you want the higher level light spell, or an ioun torch.

[Alexander_Damocles]

Light is an amazing spell. Especially coupled with things like prestidigitation and message. Why yes, the glowing rock does look like Desna. And yes, it is speaking to you. Why do you ask?

[nosig]

Kyle Pratt wrote:

Cost of hired NPCs is spell level x caster level x 10 plus any additional costs. In this case it would be 2x3x10+50 = 110 gp, the same as the torch.

Thanks Kyle! this will do it.

110gp every game is VERY workable... and I think most (all?) judges would be agreeable for my lady to have this done on her way to the VC briefing for the game... It'll be funny to always be coming from the "Speciality Dress Shop" at the start of the game, and she may even have to rush into the meeting half dressed (with a cloak over it all, just the picture she gives most of the time anyway...) HA! I'll use her Hat of Disguise to make it look like she's "decently attired", but if you touch her (interact with the illusion) the DC is 11 to "see thru her disguise"! This is going to be fun! I wonder if I add 50 gp to the cost would I be able to count it as a Master Work Tool for Profession Courtesan!

She can also buy a scroll as a back up plan - just incase...

OR can Continual Flame be bought in an Oil? Cost would be 350gp I would think....

[Katisha]

Seraphimpunk wrote:

the Light Orison/Cantrip is just as good as Continual flame for society play. 10 min/level infinity times per day. Or just buy the magic item with Continual Light already cast on it if you want the higher level light spell, or an ioun torch.

Sorry Seraphimpunk, you are missing the point. I am not wanting a Continual LIGHT, I'm looking to place Continual FLAME (the image of fire) on clothing (the lining of a Cloak actually). Just for dramatic RP effects.

"Yes, my nearly naked dominatrix is clothed in flickering flames. You have a problem with that?" LOL!

edited: oh, and there is no such spell in PF as Continual Light (that's 3.0 as far as I know). it's replacement was Continual Flame, which I can't get cast on a magic item, except by paying each adventure to have it cast... which is sort of what this thread is all about.

[Howie23]

Seraphimpunk wrote:

the Light Orison/Cantrip is just as good as Continual flame for society play. 10 min/level infinity times per day. Or just buy the magic item with Continual Light already cast on it if you want the higher level light spell, or an ioun torch.

With all respect, it isn't just as good due to the interaction between [light] and [darkness] spells, which is determined by spell level.

All of this aside from the flaming dominatrix matter. :)

[Katisha]

Howie23 wrote:

Seraphimpunk wrote:

the Light Orison/Cantrip is just as good as Continual flame for society play. 10 min/level infinity times per day. Or just buy the magic item with Continual Light already cast on it if you want the higher level light spell, or an ioun torch.

With all respect, it isn't just as good due to the interaction between [light] and [darkness] spells, which is determined by spell level.

All of this aside from the flaming dominatrix matter. :)

wow...

0.0

getting a Cleric to cast the Continual Flame... cost 3x5x10= 150+50=200 gp...
and the Courtesan flips opens her cloak to dispel the darkness...

wow...

I didn't think of that...

[Alizor]

I can't look it up right now, but I believe that NPC spellcasting is under the same restrictions as scrolls and such, which means that you have to get the wizard version of the spell, not the cleric version.

[Dan Luckett]

It's something I've brought up before, and the last time I asked about it, Mike said it was on the "to do list" to look at. So, know that it's on the radar, and that it will be considered eventually if not already.

[nosig]

Daniel Luckett wrote:

It's something I've brought up before, and the last time I asked about it, Mike said it was on the "to do list" to look at. So, know that it's on the radar, and that it will be considered eventually if not already.

please expand on your post above...

what "It" is being referenced?

thank you in advance

[Katisha]

Kyle Pratt wrote:

I can't look it up right now, but I believe that NPC spellcasting is under the same restrictions as scrolls and such, which means that you have to get the wizard version of the spell, not the cleric version.

drat, darn, hsss, booo. oh well. It was just a kewl vision anyway.

and I'm sure I'd never get it to work right anyway....

[Dan Luckett]

nosig wrote:

Daniel Luckett wrote:

It's something I've brought up before, and the last time I asked about it, Mike said it was on the "to do list" to look at. So, know that it's on the radar, and that it will be considered eventually if not already.

please expand on your post above...

what "It" is being referenced?

thank you in advance

Spells with a Permanency.

Edit: note that this was brought to him before I was a VC, and maybe before my last convention in February, but I did ask him about it and it's been a while.

[Guioh]

nosig wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

On the other hand, the possibility of paying 50gp per session to have a flaming codpiece is still pretty good deal.

yeah,yeah and the fact that you detect (to a detect magic) as "having evocation magic in your pants"... I've heard this joke before (still makes people laugh at the table though).

and makes you a real hit at the Paracountesses parties...

Only if you're the first person who shows up with this gimmick. She's barbedly wicked when it comes to copycats.

[Artanthos]

/sigh

I guess I'll have to settle for casting continual flame on my gold circlet at the start of each session.

[nosig]

Artanthos wrote:

/sigh

I guess I'll have to settle for casting continual flame on my gold circlet at the start of each session.

with this post coming right after one referenceing "flaming codpiece"...

as my children would say "TMI,TMI!"

[Da Wander]

Ok, I am SO going to have to open a dress shop with a spell caster. I have a wizard that can cast 2nd level spells, so I guess I will be putting ranks in Craft Dresses/Clothing and start a line of "Flaming Clothing"...

now for a name for the shop...

HA!

Wander's Boutique, Ribbons and Accessories. and the designer tag's can read Wander B.R.A.

[W. Kristoph Nolen]

If you've seen "Hunger Games", there's a marvelous example of Flaming Clothes in that movie.

[Malag]

Ioun Torch stone has Continual Flame upon it. Costs 75gp.

[Chris Mortika]

That's why Ioun Torches and Everburning Torches extinguish at the end of a session. (Yes, I know they're in the Core Rulebook. So is awaken.) Unlike actual crafted magic items, they are only continual flame cast on an object, and under the special rules of PFS organized play, permanent spells don't work like they do in the rest of Pathfinder. You can't even hire NPCs to cast permanent spells for you in PFS.

[Saint Caleth]

Was there ever an answer, or is this one of the last great controversies in PFS?

Also, Ioun Torches have craft wondrous item as a prerequisite, so how are they not they are magic items in their own right, no matter what the fluff in the description says.

[Chris Mortika]

Saint Caleth, I was taken to understand that they need Craft Wondrous Item as a prerequisite to make the burnt-out Ioun Stone, rather than to add the continual flame spell. I would be happy to be dissuaded.

The fluff is the description.

[nosig]

ok...
First of all, I would like to thank everyone for thier input. I beleave I have my answer. (Basicly it's "Yes, Continual Flame spells can be Continual - as long as they are cast at the start of each adventure.") At a cost of 110gp every game this is exceptable to me, realizing I can RP it in LOTS of different ways, and I might have to have a back-up plan for when the adventure starts with no chance of hiring spellcasting to start with (perhaps Oil of Continual Flame).

Chris - you seem to be the only person I have encountered with the view that Ioun Torchs and Everburning Torchs are one adventure items. Do you enforce this at your table? I realize many characters have these items in their stock equipment and the players wouldn't even mention (or think of) them until entering a dark area. (Most of mine carry sun rods). Do you then tell the players "did you buy this at the start of the scenario? No? Sorry - the spell doesn't carry over from your last adventure - so you're in the dark."

Please everyone... I realize that Continual Flame on an Ioun Torch and Everburning Torch will give my PC a "continual light source" (at all tables except Chris's it seems, anyone else rule it like him?). I was not wanting the LIGHT part of the spell. I wanted the FLAME (illusion of fire) part. To use as a wardrobe accessory. And perhaps on jewelry.

So... my character will be buying spell casting services at the start of each game (for Continual Flame spells). Anyone have any other suggestions for Kewl things to do with the spell?

[Jiggy]

Chris Mortika wrote:

I would be happy to be dissuaded.

I recall the arguments for their permanency not dissuading you in the past (and I'm not aware of any new arguments), so perhaps your best recourse is to flex your 4-star muscles and see if you can get M&M to chime in, perhaps in a new thread or via PM?

[Chris Mortika]

nosig wrote:

Chris - you seem to be the only person I have encountered with the view that Ioun Torchs and Everburning Torchs are one adventure items. Do you enforce this at your table? I realize many characters have these items in their stock equipment and the players wouldn't even mention (or think of) them until entering a dark area. (Most of mine carry sun rods). Do you then tell the players "did you buy this at the start of the scenario? No? Sorry - the spell doesn't carry over from your last adventure - so you're in the dark."

Sort of. In a situation like that, I figure that PCs would have noticed that their Everburning Torches went out when they left Absalom, and I give them the option to retroactively purchase a new item, or a sun rod, or a wayfinder, or for that matter a lantern and oil.

I handle this the same way I've told an entire party of new players that their starting characters couldn't take Rich Parents, or a great player that her fighter didn't have masterwork transformation cast on her weapons. (Or, during Season 0, telling player after player that they couldn't play their Pathfinder Beta characters.)

I should note: I don't personally like this rule. But I don't get to pick and choose which rules I enforce.

[MisterSlanky]

What about a magic weapon? The Core Rulebook indicates some will shed light. That's an option as well.

[Jiggy]

Chris Mortika wrote:

I don't get to pick and choose which rules I enforce.

Then you must be in the bottom 90% of GMs.

(Just kidding, sozin! Relatedly, would it be alright to make a meme of this?) ;D

[nosig]

Ryan Bolduan wrote:

What about a magic weapon? The Core Rulebook indicates some will shed light. That's an option as well.

sigh. guess I should have been clearer in the title of the thread.

the thread is about the FLAME part of Continual FLAME spell - oh and a bit about the Continual, it's NOT about the light.

This thread really really isn't concerned with the light aspect of the spell (at least not much). Truely. Cross-my-heart.

I'm wanting to give one of my PCs flaming clothing and/or jewelry. the only "weapons" she carries are whips, and a silver "spiked gauntlet" that she uses as jewelry (the whips are "tools of her profession").

[Dan Luckett]

Jiggy wrote:

Chris Mortika wrote:

I would be happy to be dissuaded.

I recall the arguments for their permanency not dissuading you in the past (and I'm not aware of any new arguments), so perhaps your best recourse is to flex your 4-star muscles and see if you can get M&M to chime in, perhaps in a new thread or via PM?

Based on Mike having it on his to do list to look at. I am making an educated guess that it will go another direction, if at all.

@Chris
In this instance, my interpretation is not in line with yours, and you're the only one I've ever seen swing it that way. I'm only repeating this here to note my opposition for anyone coming across this topic for the first time, and not to reopen the discussion. We've had this discussion before and it is able to be found with any amount of reasonable Search-fu. Nothing has changed since then.