My group is playing Kingmaker weekly and have just turned 4th-level. I've had two events that are making me rethink my character choice and an opportunity to replace, because I've missed several sessions for personal reasons. I would like advice to keep or replace, and if replace to what.
Event 1: My character is a dwarven wild mystic druid with the feather domain focused on summoning. The event is that I started getting ready for 4th-level and became a little overwhelmed with the paperwork. I had to pick and build an animal companion. I had to prepare my primary summonings, because I finally have augment summoning and they last longer. Our house rule is that only the DM can look at Bestiary books during the game. And prepare his wild shape forms. My Word document of game mechanics is at 13 pages, and that doesn't include the character sheet. Don't get me wrong, I've played a summoner before and expected their preparation. However, he was a cleric without all that druid preparation action going, too. Bottomline: it is and continue to be a lot more work to ready this character for fast play.
Event 2: To summarize a recent discussion with the DM, he just realized my summoning intent and advised me that he and others in the group don't appreciate the spotlight time lost when the summoner effectively gets 4+ actions per round. As I've said, I played a summoner before. Bottomline: he's offering an opportunity to change characters as we start the kingdom building phase.
Now the four other characters are the following:
1. General - Human paladin of Iomed... attempts to tank, 2nd face
2. Ruler - Human marid sorceror... some controller, mostly blaster, 1st face
3. Spymaster - Human dex fighter archer
4. Grand Diplomat - Human fire cleric, 3rd face
Again, I would like advice to keep or replace, and if replace to what. More or less anything Paizo-published is allowed.
Sounds like you might be best off replacing (or can you perhaps rejigger the character if you like him/her and cut down on the time it takes you to prep and to run in combat?).
Just looking at classes, looks like you could use a rogue. They're maybe not as critical in Kingmaker as in some other campaigns, but you can still never go wrong having one in the party. A bard could also fill a similar role. Could take the royal assassin spot (or treasurer, I suppose, which might be a neat twist).
You've got an all-human party, so might be worth making another non-human.
Depending on what your group did with the Sootscales, you could have a fun kobold rogue.
Aldori Magus.
Kingmaker is a great campaign for adding characters in midstream. the Aldori fits in as a last minute top level add as perhaps his family got the original group their charter to explore the Stolen Lands.
I sympathize with you on prep time, my prep time for games as a player is getting less and less every week. I just want to play.
Wizard that does crafting is OP in Kingmaker. You get tons of downtime, and can craft basically everything you ever want.
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I'd recommend rejiggering your Druid from a summon focused character to a combat wild-shaper. Trade your animal companion for a Domain and switch about some ability scores so you can buff/shapeshift and fight. A wilderness focused PC is always welcome in Kingmaker and it means you can keep playing your dwarf without stealing spotlight time. You can still summon, but you can keep it in reserve for emergencies.
Druids in Kingmaker...
In the above group I would strongly advise you to build an arcane character and, more specifically either a Diviner Wizard or a support/ranged combat Bard with a focus on crafting and knowledge skills which are both very very handy in Kingmaker.
Both would be much easier to play than your "I have to handle like 6 characters" summoner druid and be a great addition in the sense that your fellow players will love you for what you can bring to the table aside from "mo' damage".
Do you still have someone who gets along in the wild if you replace your PC?
If not you could go ranger or stay druid with a different focus.
Personally I like the freebooter ranger very much, at least the conceps as I didn't play one yet.
Thanks for the initial comments. Some feedback:
- The Dex-fighter is getting some "bonus stuff beyond RAW" to enable him to disable traps and be Roguish.
- I haven't looked at Aldori Magus or Magus, period. This is my first PF game with those classes.
- The sorceror is going to craft stuff with "bonus stuff beyond RAW" to give him access to all spell lists.
- The other characters are not good in the wild, so I think that I need to cover that aspect. I'm just not keen on the melee combat druid yet. Beyond summoning, I enjoy the controller and minor blaster aspect.
- Actually, my druid has worked well and broken many of the early combats with Calm Animal that he always carries with the feather domain. He prevented the party from attacking any animals that could be left alone.
- Don't get me started on this "bonus stuff beyond RAW" stuff. I'm in the minority as the non-Monty Haller in my group. I like to optimize but stay within RAW and RAI.
So, early consensus is to replace or retool. Options are:
1. Aldori Magus
2. Non-summoning focused druid
3. Diviner Wizard
4. support/ranged combat Bard
5. Ranger
The bard is gonna rock (pun intended) in a party of multiple fighting people. They will like you at levels 1-4, LOVE you 5-6, and start worshipping the bountiful horn of plentiful buffs at 7+, when you start laying on the inspire as a move action and good hope as a standard.
And it is pretty easy to be a badass combatant too. Set str to 14, grab Arcane Strike and Power Attack, do buffs, and voila, damage in the low 20sper hit.
I am in a Kingmaker game, and actually make a Kensai Magus who uses an Aldori Dueling Sword. I think the combination works great. The other members of our party include:
Gunslinger (with a rouge dip for traps) - Our survivalist, we call him Daniel Boon
Cleric - Ranged. Healer/minor summoner
Barbarian - 2-handed sword Killer/Tank...with the appraise skill (yeah we couldn't figure it out either)
Sorcerer - god-type/controller (favorite spells: Web, Enlarge Barbarian)
Kensai Magus - Always goes first, high AC
I'd also throw a vote to Ranger. Your skills will be very useful in this campaign, you've already got your pet, add the Boon Companion feat and you're golden. You have ranged and melee covered, so you can go switch hitter and help out where you're needed.
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Alchemist (bomb-focused) is a very strong option for Kingmaker if you want some extra firepower. This is mostly because a vast majority of the AP can be done in 15 minute workdays (it takes a full day to explore a hex on horseback). This allows you to go nova in most encounters. Don't get too comfortable with this technique all the time though. The alchemist in my game has learned to scale it back after a couple random encounters and a couple of the more dungeon-crawl-like parts where resources were scarce.
Overall though, he really likes his character and it gives the group a bit of a skill-monkey in addition to the damage capability. With the addition of being able to share extracts via discovery at higher levels, it also gives you a bit of a brewmaster for the niche situations when somebody needs a random potion.
**WARNING** If you go this route, you and the GM (especially the GM) take great care in reading the alchemist rules, splash weapon rules (especially what happens on a miss), and (GM only) carfeully review touch ACs for encounters (the touch AC classes have the potential to turn a big bad into butter fairly quickly, especially if your group's synergy is very good with support, etc.).
Just my two cents.
I played a Gnome Summoner (the King, primary face) in Kingmaker (starting with Summoner beta and transitioning to official Summoner) so I feel your pain.
After the campaign was over I discovered an iPhone app called "summoner" which has both Monster Summoning and Nature's Ally on it. And you can add the augmented summoning feat. It will even roll the dice for you. I wish I had it during the game.
I think its price was 99 cents. Well worth it. I do not know if it is on other platforms.
So, in short, there is an app for that! Do you have an Iphone?
I think you should try sticking with the character a bit more, if you have access to the app above. There may also be a website somewhere that does the same.
BTW I am not affiliated with the above mentioned app.
Ultimately, play what you think will be fun, isn't that what the game is about?! My two cents+
anthrorob
@ Chris Lambert
With all due respect, I believe Kingmaker is the wrong thread for my post. I'm asking for character advice not campaign advice. I included the campaign information as context.
Further, since you moved the thread, no one has posted on it. While it may because no one had any more advice, another reason may be that those people who review the Kingmaker forum are not character advisers as opposed to the Advice forum.
Thanks for your consideration.
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First off do your homework. Take 20 min to copy and past your entire Summon Nature ally spell monster list then update them with feat Augment Summoning. Then print them and put in slip sheet. Or spend .99 cent and get the app. done easy
Second D&D/ Pathfinder is team social game. Which mean everyone wants turn and chance to shine. Share the stage /gaming table with the whole group. Use the pet and summon to help you and the other PC not to show them up. Do not flood the board with your stuff, use them to bock attack route to soft target (Ie sorcerer) and to set up flanks and add other (DC15) if your beater get + 4 to hit there going to be happy. Your pet and summon did there job by help your team win the fight.
Last if you decide to change I would do this….
Keep the druid level 4 with pet that is level 1 then go ranger (urban)
to get trapfinding witch you party dose not have(for at lest 4 levels). Use the summon to look for your traps for you. Favored enemies Giants, Fey, Human, monstrous humanoid. Then I would go back forth Druid Ranger till it 10/10. This let you keep the feel of guy you and tone down the summoning but dose not nef it to not playable.
Hey look at what you end up with.
BaB 17, Fort +14, Reflex +10, Will +10, Druid caster level 10 with 5 level spells, Ranger caster Level 10 with 3rd level spells, Wild shape 5 time per day, Nature bond, nature sense, orisons, wild empathy (witch should stack),Woodland stride, Resist nature's lure, Venom immunity, 3 favored enemy, track, 3 Combat style feat, Trapfinding, Favored Community 2, Push Through, Swift tracker, Evasion and pet level 14. Pet level 18. If you take this feat.
As of right now you are level 4 with a level 1 pet. (-3 animal Sub Domain Feather)
I would take level as Ranger 1 and take Boon companion feat.
Boon Companion
Source Seekers of Secrets 16
Your bond with your animal companion or familiar is unusually close.
Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class ability.
Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.
Special: You may select this feat more than once. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different animal companion or familiar.
With this feat at level 5 Full level at 5th level. Your pet you would not get better till 8th when become level 6th and from that point it stay 2 level lower than you so much weaker.
Not game breaking strong. But you are good beater or shooter. Skill monkey, medic, and good self buffer. Also you get double work off your wisdom score.
Littel weeker on BaB than Straight Ranger but way beter caster 5th level spell and more spell per day.
What did you end up doing?
Use the summon to look for your traps for you
You need to be careful with this. If your summon is using Perception to look for traps, cool, if you're using your summon to trigger the traps so you don't get hit, if I'm your GM, you just lost your Druid/Ranger powers.
Use the summon to look for your traps for youYou need to be careful with this. If your summon is using Perception to look for traps, cool, if you're using your summon to trigger the traps so you don't get hit, if I'm your GM, you just lost your Druid/Ranger powers.
glade I am not in your . I have been doing that trick for over 30 years now. It spell trick described in 1 ED back in a dragon magazine.
the summoner effectively gets 4+ actions per round.
Our house rule, to prevent just that: Only one "summon spell" can ever be "active" at any given time.
Summon wolf > summon wolf > summon bear would mean you get a wolf, who changes into a wolf, and then changes into a bear.
I mean: wildshape + companion + summoned animal (1) is bad/good enough.
Use the summon to look for your traps for youYou need to be careful with this. If your summon is using Perception to look for traps, cool, if you're using your summon to trigger the traps so you don't get hit, if I'm your GM, you just lost your Druid/Ranger powers.
Companion in this way: yes!
Summon in this way: will look angrily at you, but don't lose the powers. After all, you know it will be in this plane of existence for only a limited time, and if it "dies" it will simply go back to its idea of heaven/alternate plane.
Summon in this way: will look angrily at you, but don't lose the powers. After all, you know it will be in this plane of existence for only a limited time, and if it "dies" it will simply go back to its idea of heaven/alternate plane.
Well in my opinion, if you're summoning an animal with the sole purpose letting it get killed by a trap, you don't have a real reverence for nature.
What did you end up doing?
Actually, due to personal issues, I haven't restarted playing. My target is next week. However, I'm sticking with the druid for awhile. We'll see how it goes. Our party is not character-optimizing, besides myself, so I may need the big guns (multiple SNA) for party survival. The DM has signaled that he's concerned with party survival as it is.
cheers
Summon in this way: will look angrily at you, but don't lose the powers. After all, you know it will be in this plane of existence for only a limited time, and if it "dies" it will simply go back to its idea of heaven/alternate plane.Well in my opinion, if you're summoning an animal with the sole purpose letting it get killed by a trap, you don't have a real reverence for nature.
So raising lifestock for slaughter is also a way of losing *divine* power?
Completely different. That animal will be used to feed. Animals are killed for food all the time in nature.
This may be a little extreme, but this is how I see it: If your garden was the only way to feed your family and you needed help, would you make your child help you in the garden? I would, even if they were young. If you were trying to cross a street with a blind corner, would you throw your child in the middle of the street, if they get hit, well now you know a car was coming and can cross safely now. Wouldn't you rather both you and your child could make it across the street safely? That's because you revere your child
If you summon an animal and basically hope it dies so you can be safe, you obviously don't revere that animal.
Summon in this way: will look angrily at you, but don't lose the powers. After all, you know it will be in this plane of existence for only a limited time, and if it "dies" it will simply go back to its idea of heaven/alternate plane.Well in my opinion, if you're summoning an animal with the sole purpose letting it get killed by a trap, you don't have a real reverence for nature.
And how die to a trap any different than dieing as a blocker between me and type IV demon? Dead is dead . That is summon monster job to die so PC do not. It is the natural order of d&d world.
And how die to a trap any different than dieing as a blocker between me and type IV demon? Dead is dead . That is summon monster job to die so PC do not. It is the natural order of d&d world.
Again completely different. Would you rather die because I wanted 2 candy bars and the only way to get it was to kill you, or would you rather die trying to defend what you love and believe in?
When you summon a beast to help you fight, are aren't summoning it so it will die, you are doing it to help you win the fight. With traps, you are summoning it to die.
Dead is still dead dose not mater how you got there.
NG druid, maybe has those morals
CN druid, rather you than me mr beaver
NE druid, laffs at the badger dies in an acid trap
N druid, thank you for your sacrifice, the circle of life continues
LN druid, progress, i command thee, others up the food chain command me
Dead is still dead dose not mater how you got there.
By that logic it's okay for a Paladin to go to the orphanage and kill all the children because, hey, they were were going to die of old age eventually anyway, and dead is dead. I hope that sufficiently displays the flaw in that logic.
In order to be a druid you have to rever nature, regardless of your alignment. If you don't rever nature you stop being a druid, again, regardless of your alignment.