Favored Terrain(Water) and piloting a ship

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

The Ranger's ability Favored Terrain says the following (courtesy of d20pfsrd.com):

'At 3rd level, a ranger may select a type of terrain from Table: Ranger Favored Terrains. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on initiative checks and Knowledge (geography), Perception, Stealth, and Survival skill checks when he is in this terrain. A ranger traveling through his favored terrain normally leaves no trail and cannot be tracked (though he may leave a trail if he so chooses).'

One of the Favored Terrain options is 'Water (above and below the surface)'.

What happens if a Ranger is piloting a vessel on the water? Is he considered to be in his Favored Terrain? Obviously, there is no terrain for 'Ship Deck'. Is he 'traveling through his favored terrain' as he pilots the ship such that he couldn't be tracked by his ship's wake or other signs of his ship's passing? If he gets into a fight on a ship do his F/T modifiers apply?

On a related note, what if a Ranger is in a set of partially submerged caves, a la the Skull and Shackles 1 Riptide Cove? Is this terrain Water or Underground? I'm thinking it's both, so if the Ranger has either terrain type as a F/T then he gets his bonus'.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Has anybody had any experience with this issue? There is a ranger in the Skull and Shackles campaign that I'm GMing and this is gonna come up soon.

Thanks in advance for any replies,

DJF

[Lochmonster]

I would say no he doesn't get the favored terrain bonus because it is the SHIP that is in his favored terrain, not he himself.

If his favored terrain bonus was desert, would he get bonuses for driving a cart across the desert?

I interpret (perhaps wrongly so) the bonus to be conditional on whether the character is directly interacting with the environment and not simply traveling through it by a means of conveyance (boat, cart, hovercraft, etc).

Now if they were traveling through it with a animal mount of some kind....that might be a different story.

[blackbloodtroll]

Every terrain falls into a favored terrain available to the ranger. You have to take a look, and ask, "what favored terrain is this?". If you say none, then somebody is doing something wrong, because unless you start traveling the planes, there is a favored terrain that applies.
In this specific case, the water terrain applies as a favored terrain, unless you rule there is a more appropriate favored terrain.

[Foghammer]

Lochmonster, you would be in houserule territory if you were to say that a ship in the ocean is not in a water terrain.

A house in the forest is still in forest terrain. A tower in a city is still in urban terrain. If you are on horseback while riding through the plains, would you not get your bonus because you do not have favored terrain (horse)?

The rules as written for favored terrain do not require a ranger to be interacting WITH the environment, but simply to BE there. If I had to guess, I would say RAI isn't any different.

Seeing as how favored terrain cites water (above or below), and I don't see a reasonable way for a ranger to be above water with such regularity that it could be a favored terrain without the aid of a boat, I'm going to say it applies.

[Lochmonster]

@Foghammer

Like I said, perhaps wrongly so.

So my understanding was incorrect, but does a house in the woods actually count as woods terrain? (asking this question in all seriousness.)

[blackbloodtroll]

All terrain falls into one of the favored terrains. You just need to decide which applies.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Thanks for the replies guys. At this point I'm inclined to go with letting the ranger's F/T (water) bonus' apply when he's on a vessel. It makes sense and really helps to add an air of expertise to the character, like the guy has an edge beyond just having ranks of Profession(sailor), Perception, or what-have-you.

[Foghammer]

Lochmonster wrote:

@Foghammer

Like I said, perhaps wrongly so.

So my understanding was incorrect, but does a house in the woods actually count as woods terrain? (asking this question in all seriousness.)

Technically (per RAW), yes. Logically, no.

[blackbloodtroll]

Foghammer wrote:

Lochmonster wrote:

@Foghammer

Like I said, perhaps wrongly so.

So my understanding was incorrect, but does a house in the woods actually count as woods terrain? (asking this question in all seriousness.)

Technically (per RAW), yes. Logically, no.

Then which favored terrain would you pick to represent it?

[Thac20]

You could think in terms of what knowlege and skills Favored Terrain:Water would give you. Knowlege(Geography) might give you information about reefs, currents, fog banks. Survival might help you find good places to fish. Perception to spot land or other ships.

[Foghammer]

There isn't one. That's why I would rule that forest still counts.

I suppose a good way to handle it fluff-wise would be to say that the ambient energy/magic/life force/whathaveyou of the terrain itself is lending the ranger the bonuses, and that the physicality of the thing has nothing to do with it.

[Umbranus]

So a ranger with favored terrain water would get his bonus to survival if he used that skill to pilote his boat?
I think I read that some kind of boat is piloted (or can be) by survival. I think the raw boat.

[Poit]

Lochmonster wrote:

So my understanding was incorrect, but does a house in the woods actually count as woods terrain? (asking this question in all seriousness.)

A house in the woods counts as both Forest and Urban terrain, because you're clearly in a forest, and the Urban terrain explicitly applies to buildings. A ranger with Favored Terrain (Forest) and Favored Terrain (Urban) applies the larger Favored Terrain bonus.

"If a specific terrain falls into more than one category of favored terrain, the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher."