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The help you needed was for the group to describe the game a bit to give you ideas on where to fit in....a druid with animal domain in an urban environ? That is something that easily could have been avoided if they talked to you.
Ask if you can retire the character and start something a bit more inline with the campaign.
What are your stats? And what feats you have?
Are you a melee or caster druid (you can't really be both in PF, you should concentrate on one). Owl is definitely not a form for actual melee combat, but might be ok for flying above the battlefield and slinging spells (but there might be smaller birds that are even better)
Without knowing that there's not so much we can do to help you.
Also there are plants in cities, there's always some kind of gras or somewhat growing between cobblestones. If the roads are even made of that and not just dirt.
However, if you are absolutely not having fun with your character at all, you could always ask your GM to let you reroll a new one.
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Take a look at the Urban Druid archetype and see if that'd work for you. Still a druid and all, but focused more on the environment you'll be playing in.
+1 to what blackbloodtroll said. Another would be to focus on controlling spell effects ( entangled would be awesome, bit their are other types of combat controlling effects.), divination spells for recon, barkskin and finding similar types of buffages, oh lol forgot about Summon nature's ally... Lol great spell to research; druids are very flexible in what the came adapt too. Dps is already over filled in your group. Understand the other roles that might to be filled that the group is lacking. If you change heats in how you play communicate to your fellow players how you are switching your tactics and ask them for feedback. Of course, the gm should have coached you when creating him in the first place. Now, you know to ask the gm ahead of time before creating a new character. Hope things get better for ya.
You have a fondness for rats, but plan to stay in Owl form all the time? Weird.
Those stats look fine to me though. You may not have to sling spells because of your allies, but that leaves you open to try more... creative thigs with your spells. If you ever have the down time, Awaken can be great for creating a network of spies in the city, for instance.
What do you mean, no plants? You mean there are no weeds growing in the cobblestones or ivy clinging to the sides of the buildings? Are there no gardens? Every city since the beginning of civilization has had wild and cultivated plants growing in it.
And animals! Rats, horses, oxen, dogs, cats, raccoons, birds. Medieval cities were more full of animals than even today. Think of how many times you've seen stray dogs and cats in a city!
Also, Entangle is great, but it's not your only spell. Remember druids can burn any of their spells for Summon Nature's Ally spells of the same or lower level. If you have nothing else to do in a fight, you can summon lots of animals.
Speak with Animals (from domain): Ask somebody's housecat which way the bad guys went. Have mice spy for you. Possibilities just go on an on.
Animal Companion (from Domain): It's -3 level, but that doesn't make it useless. It should still be plenty scary in combat. Even if not, think of all the things it can do out of combat. Scouting, guarding, tracking, etc. Ask your GM if you can take Boon Companion (Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets) to raise his level by 3.
Other spells: Remember that scene in The Two Towers where Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas mistakenly attack the returned Gandalf and he uses that spell that makes their weapons glow red hot so they have to drop them? That spell is called Heat Metal and it works just like that. Pox Pustules is another of your serious debuffs. Also, you are in a city likely made primarily of wood and stone. . . . Stone Shape and Wood Shape should allow you to virtually be **GOD** here. Reshape walls, doors, floors, ceiling, etc as you see fit.
That's just the beginning. Stop thinking with your claws just because you are not in a forest. You have the potential to be even MORE dangerous here.
Those stats are very close to my own level 8 druid, and I feel she is the most versatile, engaging, fun and, yes, powerful, character in the party.
She's just a plain druid with a standard animal companion (she took tiger). I took archery feats to give her some non-spell casting effectiveness, and she's a pretty good archer. With a 14 dex yours is quite capable in the ranged attack area as well.
Even within a city you should be able to make effective use of "entangle." Cities have grass, bushes, trees and other plants all over the place.
If you want to compete against full BAB combat machines in damage output, you are likely to be disappointed. But that's not the only thing druids can do. Druids have some of the best battlefield control spells in the game and some of the best buffs as well. If you are going to stay in wildshape form then you should have the "natural spell" feat so you can cast spells while flying.
You might want to rethink your archetype and/or domain if you want, but there's no reason a druid with those scores couldn't be a completely effective member of the party.
Although my character has settled into a buffing role, the spells that I am having to take are not the ones that my character would take if he were a real person. He has a particular fondness to using fire type spells. Is constantly summoning fire elementals when a simple bird would suffice and he likes rats. Yet for some reason he is taking 2 Bulls strength for the BAB boys and Cure Light Wounds for the cleric who is really going to get himself killed horribly. What makes this worse is the fact that (although it is technically meta gaming) I am taking all these spells to benefit the party since i am friends with them all IRL, but my character physically hates the Cleric, is rivals with the Mage and only thinks of the Fighter as his personal meat shield.
OK, so now the question is "do you want character optimization advice?" or is it "do you want game playing advice?"
Because "How do I make a better druid?" is the first question. "How do I have more fun?" is the second question. I'm thinking you really want the answer to the second question.
If you're at level 8, you're close to the level where a caster focused Druid gains control of power. I would aim away from wildshape abuse and trying to maximize a companion.
I would focus more on casting ability. There's a Treantmonk guide out there focusing on the two types. It's horribly out of date, but that just means you'll probably enjoy it more since it focuses on 'concept' rather than munchkining the class.
It might be some good light reading for you to better understand your class, and what is possible.
Why is he requiring the same class, etc? It seems like an arbitrary restriction. If someone in my group was noticeably not having fun, none of us would object to a new character, and probably encourage it.
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Well, that's a rather harsh stricture on your retcon, especially considering the reasons behind the desired change.
Also, those stats are not anything close to what I would classify as "unbelievably weak" stats. You have a perfectly fine set for being a spellcasting druid.
Definitely ditch the Combat Reflexes - you ain't gonna be in hand-to-hand. Quick Wild Shape [Ultimate Magic] might be a good replacement; you're spending so much time wild shaped, it might be beneficial to jump into it with a bit more alacrity. Wild Speech [UM] lets you speak normally whilst wild shaped; if you're gonna try to be in critter form 24/7, you might want to be able to talk to 2-legged folks. Natural Spell only lets you cast while shaped, not communicate. Aspect of the Beast [APG] lets you select a nifty animal aspect that's always active, reflecting your constant use of wild shape. I would recommend the Night Senses or Wild Instinct options for your situation. With the Night Senses option, you can later take Deepsight [APG] and extend your darkvision to 120ft. Vermin Heart [APG] would let you use your Wild Empathy on the skittering vermin that often populate urban areas. Planar Wild Shape [UC] lets you add the celestial or fiendish template while wild shaping, for what that's worth. Gotta have Knowledge: Planes with 5 ranks, though.
That's all I can think of for now. Doubtless better advice has been posted while I was putting this together, so if someone said something that makes my advice look silly or redundant, go with theirs instead. Best of luck!
Although my character has settled into a buffing role, the spells that I am having to take are not the ones that my character would take if he were a real person. He has a particular fondness to using fire type spells. Is constantly summoning fire elementals when a simple bird would suffice and he likes rats. Yet for some reason he is taking 2 Bulls strength for the BAB boys and Cure Light Wounds for the cleric who is really going to get himself killed horribly. What makes this worse is the fact that (although it is technically meta gaming) I am taking all these spells to benefit the party since i am friends with them all IRL, but my character physically hates the Cleric, is rivals with the Mage and only thinks of the Fighter as his personal meat shield.
So, you have a party that is easily rolling threw encounters (you stated that the fighter, cleric, and wizard are all 1-shotting enemies), and all you do is buff, which you do not enjoy. You are not having fun because you are metagaming instead of roleplaying.
I have a simple solution for you: Stop doing things you don't enjoy.
Out of character, warn your party, talk to your GM about a minor rebuild (You don't need a big one. Your character is fine, you are just spending all your time buffing the party so they are more effective, rather than spending your actions on things you want to do. Some people, like myself, enjoy the supporting role. You don't. Stop playing it.), and then decide what exactly you want to do.
With your stat array, I would recommend focusing on summoning and/or battlefield control. With your rebuild, replace your domain and a handful of feats with better selections for your intended role. Have fun figuring out what your character wants to do, not what is optimized for your party.
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Shaping Focus feat will pump your wild shape if you go Urban DruidUnless I am mistaken, taking the archetype of Urban Druid would not count as multi-classing which is necessary for the Shaping Focus feat
No, you are mistaken. Shaping focus will bring your wildshape up to your druid level. Multiclassing is not needed.
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OK, I'll bite.
Stop being the party kindergarten teacher.
Play the character you want to play.
It's not your job to keep your fellow players from being stupid.
If you want to play a druid that does more damage, then focus on the things druids do that do more damage. Stop memorizing heal spells and buffing up party members that are already outdamaging you and buff yourself instead.
Next time you camp, before you go to sleep for the night, inform your party that you are no longer their buff/heal machine. When you wake up focus on spells that either buff you up to do more combat damage, or spells that do damage.
Then focus in combat on doing damage.
If your party members complain about needing heals, say "Me too! Who's gonna heal ME?" If your party members complain about needing buffs say "I did buff a party member already!"
In short, stop letting your "friends" dictate your game options for you.
If they give you grief over it, tell them you are role playing a character in a role playing game, and that's what your character would do.
If they don't accept that... you may need to redefine the word "friend."
I second Boon companion as the replacement for combat reflexes. Also, wild speech or vermin heart. And the stone and wood shaping will be useful. Take Warp wood for sealing/opening doors.
Consider swapping Animal domain for the Fur or Feather subdomain[APG], as they are a bit more useful.
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Stop crafting stuff for people, and ask for a kickback on that sundered weapon.
Working as a team is good and all, but you're getting used. You need to toughen up and say no (your character does too).
The answer to your question is both. I feel that if my druid was a little better at what it is HE DOES then I could enjoy playing him again. To begin with the campaign was fairly even, that was until i picked up the craft wondrous item feat and was nigh jumped on by everyone to make them magic items. This left me completely out of cash as I had loaned it out (my druid needs very little of it) and I had made nothing for myself. THEN the cleric got his nice +3 battleaxe (which i bought) sundered and completely destroyed, so he picked up the wererat's +1 greataxe (the very weapon that killed his) and decided he liked it. Now, his shield doesn't count to his AC and therefore I am in constant demand on the healing front. The Fighter had a base of 18 STR and is always asking for buffs. The Rogue is never visible because he found a wand, plus he is straying towards necromancy, so I am almost having to babysit him.
I want my Druid to be able to kill off the enemies faster so that I can keep an eye on what the party is doing, rather than having to sit back watching the party kill and just doing what i can to keep the idiots alive
Oh dear.
You have let your party walk all over you. Stop that. I know they are your friends, and I know you want to "win" the game, but seriously, if you are not having fun, you are losing.
Tell them you are going to change. Warn them that they will not have you covering up for their mistakes anymore. If the cleric wants to charge into battle without a shield, he needs to put shield of the faithful up first. If the the warrior wants +4 Str, he needs to pay for you to make a belt of it. If anyone wants any magic item from you, they need to pay you back for what you have lent them.
And of course you need the money. +4 Wis headbands, pearls of power, wildshape armor, rods of metamagic (especially quicken spell), will all make you way more effective.
Stop letting your friends take advantage of you.
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There is some truth to your words, but the other side is that if the cleric changed then the person who plays her will be meta gaming. The simple fact of the matter is that at the beginning of the campaign the gamer stated that her cleric was more of a barbarian than a cleric, but was brought up by the priests of Ergothoah (or however her name is spelt) and within her character is a sense of duty that she cannot shirk. His INT is his dump stat and his STR is now 21.
I play the game like i live real life, i don't want anything to go wrong that is why my character turned out the way he did. I created the character to go as the complete opposite of who I am to make them harder to role play and thus helping me to develop them, but they've become just as paranoid. I will have to sort this out, maybe a triumphant return to the old him as he finds his old cloak (gobbled by oozes. the only thing he had from his mother) or the cloth from his banner (Destroyed by a flesh Golem in his first encounter)
I don't see how the cleric player is having to metagame. Life (both real life and game life) is all about adjusting to change. So let him. Or not. It's not your problem.
I don't think your real problem is an "underpowered druid." First, I don't think your druid is underpowered. But more importantly, you are not playing your druid, you are letting your "friends" play you.
To be as blunt as possible, you either assert yourself and show them that you have your own goals and desires, or you continue to let them dictate your game experience.
Go read a book on assertiveness training. That might help.
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There is some truth to your words, but the other side is that if the cleric changed then the person who plays her will be meta gaming. The simple fact of the matter is that at the beginning of the campaign the gamer stated that her cleric was more of a barbarian than a cleric, but was brought up by the priests of Ergothoah (or however her name is spelt) and within her character is a sense of duty that she cannot shirk. His INT is his dump stat and his STR is now 21.
So roleplay it out. Tell the cleric you are pissed about being treated like a servant. You are tired of playing babysitter to a half-literate barbarian pretending to be a cleric (your druid doesnt like the cleric, remember).
Now the cleric can roleplay a mindless berserker and die in combat, or they can roleplay a reasonable battle cleric that, upon learning their recklessness might lead to their death, begin buffing themselves so they can spend more time in battle. This is not metagaming.
With various self-buffs, the cleric should be able be a good melee combatant and more survivable. Right now, the cleric doesnt have to worry about staying alive, you are doing the worrying for them.
I play the game like i live real life, i don't want anything to go wrong that is why my character turned out the way he did. I created the character to go as the complete opposite of who I am to make them harder to role play and thus helping me to develop them, but they've become just as paranoid. I will have to sort this out, maybe a triumphant return to the old him as he finds his old cloak (gobbled by oozes. the only thing he had from his mother) or the cloth from his banner (Destroyed by a flesh Golem in his first encounter)
I'm not sure what you are saying here.
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I agree that you have two problems: 1) How to be effective in what appears to be an overpowered party and 2) How to not be used by your friends as a personal buffbot.
Your stats are fine to do almost anything you want. I was looking at different druid options and found quite a few:
1) Have you looked at Shade of the Uskwood in the PFCampaign Setting? Become a druid/necromancer without multiclassing.
2) Have you looked at multiclassing with an Oracle/Sorceror/Wizard to become a type of Elemental Savant? All of them have very interesting fire based abilities that would blend well.
3) Have you looked at focusing on Wild Shape more? Go for a Serpent Shaman and become a grappling machine? Or get a python pet and then turn in to a viper yourself? Wrap and poison, rinse and repeat.
4) As an owl you could play up the whole Air motif. You could go Packmaster and get 8 birds to be your eyes and spies in the city. You'd be able to outsteal the rogue in a second and easily be the rich man in the party. They also have Hawk Shamans.
5) You could go Augment Summoning and conjure large animals to run people down. Hard to dodge a large, charging buck in an alleyway with nowhere to dodge. Hard to hide behind a locked door when an elephant knocks it down.
6) You could forgo spellcasting altogether and ride an animal campanion when armed with a lance. Take a tiger companion and Teamwork feats and double down on opponents as a tiger yourself.
7) How does your DM feel about Arcane Heirophant from 3.5? It let you combine your companion and a familiar into a super pet and let you sling arcane and divine spells with abandon. My favorite character was a gnome arcane heirophant.
Druids are incredible powerful, moreso in my opinion than Fighters or Rogues. I don't believe anyone "has to be the buffer/healer" but even then, your buddy is the cleric and you could argue he should be healing and not you. If he wants to melee all the time, let his next character be a fighter after this one dies.
Finally, if you're going to be a buffer, be a good one. Go back to Heroes of Battle in 3.5 and ask your DM if you can go War Wizard. Those were buffers to be proud of.
Your druid isn't underpowered, no offense meant, but you're not playing him to his potential. Break out of the mold others are squeezing you into and I think you'll find a world of possibilities in him.
As this is my first serious role playing campaign I was not entirely sure about what a good stat set is, I am still learning, but when 2 of the other members of your party have more than one 18 and the other has 20 int at level 1 you kinda feel insignifficant
Here is what I suggest. Post your entire character's stats, feats, skills, etc. Ask for help in making that druid the most badass melee monster you can be. Then pick the best advice and apply it and go have fun ripping the bad guys apart. If the "barbarian cleric" dies, oh well, your druid didn't like them anyway.
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Wow. Multiple 18s and a 20 Int a lvl 1. You're not underpowered; they are kinda overpowered. Either that, or seriously min/maxing. You have a very balanced, above average set of stats. No penalties at all.
Play however makes you happy; if your party makes bad decisions and gets walloped it's their own fault. You are a Druid, not a Nursemaid.
As this is my first serious role playing campaign I was not entirely sure about what a good stat set is, I am still learning, but when 2 of the other members of your party have more than one 18 and the other has 20 int at level 1 you kinda feel insignifficant
Assuming you started 10/14/14/10/14(+2 racial)(+1 level)/12, you have a 17 point array. Recommended points are 15, although most people play 20 or 25 because they like to feel powerful. Basicly, your stats are average for Pathfinder as a whole, but probably slightly below average in comparison to your group.
But stats don't make the PC, especially full casters.
For caster optimization, spell selection will make or break your effectiveness. As a druid, you know all your spells. Figure out which ones you want to use/will be effective at your goal. Read the druid guide here.
But, and this is far more important, you do not need to be optimized to be effective or to have fun. This is a game. You might have far more fun with "un-optimized" choices. Fun wins. Have fun.
Wow. Multiple 18s and a 20 Int a lvl 1. You're not underpowered; they are kinda overpowered. Either that, or seriously min/maxing. You have a very balanced, above average set of stats. No penalties at all.
Play however makes you happy; if your party makes bad decisions and gets walloped it's their own fault. You are a Druid, not a Nursemaid.
I think he meant one guy had 2 18s, and a second guy had 1 20. They rolled for stats, so they were just luckier than him.
I know that's what he meant; they're still on a much higher-than-normal power level. I used to have a player that got that "lucky" all the time. That's why we use point buy now.
Ah, dice tipping. I once played with a guy that "rolled" 4 18s as starting stats. Oh, and "rolled" a triple-20 auto-kill 3 times in one night.
Strangely, he was only lucky when noone was looking, or he would scoop his dice before anyone could see.
I don't play with him anymore.
Let the cleric use his spontaneous cures. You go ahead and prepare just a couple of cures to a team player. Let the rogue get a cure wand. That would be a simple fix, and you can act like one of the best casters in the game.
I've not seen it posted yet, but you might want to check Treantmonk's Druid handbook:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/druid-han dbook-part-1
It's a bit out of date (doesn't really include anything past the core book) but should still give you alot of ideas on how to play a caster druid.
They're not blasters, so don't try to do damage. Battlefield control, buffs, summons etc is where it's at.
As for the animal domain: Maybe your GM will let you switch it out for another domain or a full level animal companion?
If not, get the Boon Companion feat, to bring your AC up to max level, so it's not completely useless. :)
An large AC with grab or trip is nice to lockdown enemies while your group deals with the rest. See if you can give them the Improved Grapple/Trip feats.
Increase AC's Int to 3 first chance you get, so it can learn all skills and feats that it's phyiscally capable of.
Remember that you can release your AC fromy our service and get a new one with a ritual, so exchanging it into something useful in case you have a bad one isn't so hard. But check with the GM first if he'll let you find one of the type you're looking for.
Same goes for summons btw, while their damage is nice, they're true strength in my opinion is that they hinder oponents by forcing them to go around or provoke AoO, trip/grapple them, etc. Of course the damage they do is a nice bonus as well.
You're getting a lot of sound advice about handling your party members. I would like to offer a few extra things that I haven't seen mentioned yet.
1. Have you seen or read the Druid Guide's under the Druid heading? They are very good and well thought out. When these guys start optimizing your character, much of their advice and options can be found in these guides.
2. Effectively Druids have two paths: melee combat machines and battlefield controllers. So your first question is do you want to join your party on the front-line? Is melee effectiveness how you measure character power?
3. Before you answer that question, I would suggest reading the beginning of Treantmonk's Wizard Guide. It provides an alternative perspective on character power.
4. From the description of your group, it doesn't appear that the wizard is acting like a controller. With your animal domain, you are close to going controller. And IMHO nothing unbalances a party faster than a well-built and well-run summoner. Why go to the front-lines when you can send your minions?
With a slight rebuild and some tactical advice on how to run him, your character could easily become the heavy-hitter of your party. Enjoy the resurrection!
cheers!
Actually this thread sounds like you're complaining about no superhero in real life.
You dont want to metagame, you want to keep everything plausible but want to rock as well.
You have to change some stuff and if that includes some metagaming - heck - who cares? After some hours of playing the "new" character will be completly part of the story going on there and you might enjoy playing him.
I dont understand why one would prefer having no fun over metagaming...
Decide wether to be Melee or Caster and then just go ahead and enjoy playing a powerful character.
@BBT: Combat Expertise needs 13 Int:(
With your stat array, I would recommend focusing on summoning and/or battlefield control. With your rebuild, replace your domain and a handful of feats with better selections for your intended role. Have fun figuring out what your character wants to do, not what is optimized for your party.I will definitely talk to my DM about this, I am thinking about asking to take the Fire Domain, since my character is only about 2 steps away from being an arsonist. I just worry that without my little bits of support my party will lose the cleric before too long.
I"m currently playing a 4th Level Female Gnome Druid with the Fire Domain with Gnome Pyro traits in the Jade Regent Adventure Path... I can't wait for 5th level ( I get Fireball as a Domain Spell!)..
With that said..
In our last campaign(Kingmaker).. I died and Played a Female Gnome Druid with an APE Companion with Combat Reflexes...
The Ape had a 22 STR.. and would beat the crap out of everything... infact it was so powerful (and our party's Tank) that the DM had to stop the campaign(actually we felt the Kingmaker cuty building took too much time away from gaming.. plus alot of party deaths)
Anyways.. I originally wanted the Fire Domain.. but my DM said it was too powerful... but after witnessing what my APE (LARGE CREATURE) did... the Fire Domain while not as powerful as the Weather Domain for spells... fits a nice role and fun to roleplay... I might be a firebug but I always have Create Water memorized to put out little fires..
Druids are mini blasters... but full on Battlefield controllers... if you want to throw some Fireballs or Firebolts or Produce Flames while summoning a few animals to aid you.. then I would go Fire Domain..
Eitherway.. I feel the Fire Domain suits the Battlefield controller type Druid more than the Combat oriented Druid with an Animal Companion..
Goodluck