It makes you the equivalent of a lvl 5 monk for the specific features mentioned.
It wouldn't give you Evasion.
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"This skill does not let you actually use
the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items
as if you had that class feature."
If the wearer has levels in monk, her
AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels
higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat,
the robe lets her make one additional stunning attack per day.
If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed
damage of a 5th-level monk (although she does not add her
Wisdom bonus to her AC). This AC bonus functions just like
the monk’s AC bonus.
- The original question: if I roll UMD to emulate having levels as a monk (ac bonus is a monk class feature, as is unarmed damage) - the robes give me an ac and unarmed damage as a monk of five levels higher than what it "thinks" my "monk level" is. True or no?
I would say that since you do one at a time you would have to pick AC or damage, AND it would be at the afforementioned UMD result -20 (which could still be pretty high if you roll well). If you picked AC for instance, this would not allow you the WIS bonus a monk gets (you don't GET the feature), but would allow you the +s from the table based on what the robe thought your level was (you get the magical bonus as if you activated it with the feature + 5 levels).
Likewise, if you took the damage option, you would get the base damage listed, but none of the monk benefits...ie. bonus feat and str mod.
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"If the wearer has levels in monk"
The wearer has no levels in monk, nor is she able to emulate levels in monk as far as I know.
UM... this is precisely what UMD says you can emulate, even has a resulting LEVEL for the feature to be (UMD result -20).
"In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20."
Please post the full thing next time.
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).
Which class feature do you need to activate this item? "The Monk class" isn't a class feature.
You don't need Unarmed Strikes, the ability that increases their damage, to activate it, so you can't emulate that to activate the monk's robes.
You don't need AC Bonus, the ability that increase their AC, to activate it, so you can't emulate that either.
There's no "Monk" class feature, so you can't use that either.
If someone puts this one and uses UMD, nothing happens because of the UMD. You are just treated as a level 5 monk for unarmed damage and the AC bonus.
The aspect of UMD you are trying to use has very, very few uses right now, but it's there in case there are items in the future that grant benefits un-related to the class feature to classes that have said class feature.
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UM... this is precisely what UMD says you can emulate, even has a resulting LEVEL for the feature to be (UMD result -20).
"In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20."
Oh I'm sorry, I just checked the DC table and assumed it was complete.
Edit: reading through the skill I can't find any use of it that allows emulating a class. Source?
The quote is from page 109 of the core rulebook.
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Please post the full thing next time.
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).Which class feature do you need to activate this item? "The Monk class" isn't a class feature.
You don't need Unarmed Strikes, the ability that increases their damage, to activate it, so you can't emulate that to activate the monk's robes.
You don't need AC Bonus, the ability that increase their AC, to activate it, so you can't emulate that either.
There's no "Monk" class feature, so you can't use that either.
If someone puts this one and uses UMD, nothing happens because of the UMD. You are just treated as a level 5 monk for unarmed damage and the AC bonus.
The aspect of UMD you are trying to use has very, very few uses right now, but it's there in case there are items in the future that grant benefits un-related to the class feature to classes that have said class feature.
So you are saying the RAW which clearly state the resulting CLASS LEVEL doesn't mean class level? I don't quite follow you. Are you saying that all emulated Class Features cannot be emulated for classes because the magic item says that you have to have levels in a class? That makes little to no sense when cross-referenced with p 109 which clearly says "you can emulate a class level"... ie. MONK LEVEL CR - 20.
Now, your argument is purely semantic and makes no sense, I hope you see. I also hope you see the plain english and the RAW/RAI clearly meant you could do exactly what I asked.
Otherwise there would never be a point to ever emulating any class features of any class because the magic items all say "if you are such and such a class"... (OK, now I have to look for other ones)
If the RAW and RAI is so clear to you, and yet the exact opposite of what everyone else says, why did you post it in rules questions?
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Holy avenger for instance: You can "fake" being a paladin.
Rods, Wands, etc... granted specifically covered, but you are faking being a magic user when using ANY of these. ie. having spellcasting levels.
as one of the cost modifiers:
"Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more
restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price
by 30%."
Of course a person with UMD can emulate these specific classes and use the items... Isn't that the entire RAI POINT of UMD???
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If the RAW and RAI is so clear to you, and yet the exact opposite of what everyone else says, why did you post it in rules questions?
Perhaps because I thought it was a simple enough question to get a simple enough answer, and well, now I worked it out.
As far as "what everyone else says": I have never played with a GM who said I couldn't use a magic device with UMD because I wasn't the right class... that is the point of the skill, to use things you normally can't because of class restrictions.
The only additional thing that was of question was whether you can EMULATE the AC or DAMAGE Class Features when Activating the Robe. Of course you can fool it into thinking you are a monk. - Rather let me put it to you this way: if it ONLY granted benefits to MONKS, could you use UMD if not a monk and use it? Of course! Ergo it must have "thought" you had at least ONE level as a monk. Thus activation at all (while emulating class features) should fool it into thinking you are a monk of CR-20 level (as stated in the emulation area on page 109).
ps. 2 people is a pretty small concensus of "everyone else".
If your GM lets you expand the usage of UMD to include emulating classes as well as class features, which is the only thing that UMD lets you emulate, then great.
Note that in this circumstance, you'll also have to emulate Lawful alignment if you aren't Lawful.
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As I stated:
UMD was designed with the intent to allow people who couldn't otherwise use magic items because of class restrictions to do so. RAI allow for the use of it to emulate other classes (such as spellcasters).
RAW states that the resulting class level when emulating a class feature (of any sort) is CR - 20. So you "fake" the item into thinking you have CR - 20 Class Levels in XYZ Class.
So when I put the robes on, it thinks I have CR - 20 Class Levels in Monk, because I have successfully emulated the AC feature of a Monk.
Is that Lawfully logical enough for you? Pretty clear to me. RAI and RAW co-habitate the same plain of existance.
I mean, you keep saying it doesn't allow me to emulate a class, just class features... but I pointed out that when you do emulate a class feature, the item/skill description treats you as the class level CR - 20. That pretty clearly seems to me (and logic) that the item would see the class level too, since that is the result of the emulation.
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The aspect of UMD you are trying to use has very, very few uses right now, but it's there in case there are items in the future that grant benefits un-related to the class feature to classes that have said class feature.
Sorry, I don't buy that they threw it in there with no uses anywhere. Especially when there are at least two (if used the way I indicated), plus the clearly defined ones for rods, staves, wands, and scrolls.
You are arguing that the rules are there for no reason. Now who has to fake Lawful?
We could go around this for hours, you saying you can emulate a class, and me saying that you can only emulate class features.
But in the end, it doesn't matter. You can't get around this.
This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature.
Let's assume you put on the robe and successfully emulate the monk class somehow. Well, great. It thinks you're a monk, and your AC bonus class feature and unarmed strike class feature is as a monk 5 levels higher than your result - 20.
But you can't use those class features due to that very explicit rule that says you can't actually use the class feature of another class, in this case the AC bonus and unarmed strikes.
Are you saying it's the intent that you can actually use the class feature of another class when the skill explicitly says, in no uncertain terms, that you cannot use the class feature of another class?
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This item is a very special case and is not supposed to be UMD'd. It already works for non-Monks, so there is no need to emulate a monk (not that it's possible to emulate a class anyway, as I correctly stated before I was told I was wrong).
So the second argument is that "this one item is a special case (which can ignore RAW)". I call faulty logic (perhaps you failed your emulate Lawful alignment?).
OK. A Non-UMD person puts it on and it works for them as if they are a 5th level monk. I get that. No roll is even needed.
But a person WITH UMD decides to emulate the AC bonus of a monk. They roll 18, + 14 UMD. The Monk Robes, when donned, thinks they have a monk class level of 12 (32-20). Thus granting them the AC bonus of a 17th level monk. That is per RAW.
Take the case of the "item which can only be used by X class". Some Wizard made an item which can only be used if you are X class. But alas, according to "you" nobody can emulate a class. So how does one who is skilled in using ALL SORTS of magic devices suddenly get locked out? Answer: they don't. They emulate one of the class features of the class in question and the item says "oh, they must have X class levels, they must be X Class (of level CR - 20)."
It isn't as confusing if you just stop ignoring RAW and RAI...
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Let's take the other undoubtedly "special case" I mentioned: the Holy Avenger.
Every normal person uses it as a +2 cold iron longsword... so its just like the "as a 5th level monk" on the Robes if you are not a monk.
Now, I emulate a Paladin's Aura of Good... and the Sword thinks: Wow! That is such a strong Aura, he must be a level 12 Paladin! Here, I am going to work like a +5 sword now, and grant 17 SR to him and his friends. Here, I will even throw in a free spell every round for him to use! What a GOOD SWORD I AM!
Alternately your version = nope, its another exception that there is no UMD roll to be taken and no reason to ever have this part of the rules explain on page 109 that emulating a class feature fakes the item into thinking you are Class Level X. Its just extra words on a page for use sometime and somewhere in the future...
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So, you are emulating the Improved unarmed damage and AC bonus class features of the monk, and treating them as 5 levels higher?
I am emulating them, and the robes are thinking, "Oh, he has 12th class levels in monk, I better up his game to 17th level because that is what I do..." (its what they do if they think you have monk class levels)
The result would be 17th level AC bonus (+4, instead of +1 non-emulated) and a base HTH of 2d8 (but which would provoke attacks of opportunity if you don't have the improved unarmed feat). No other modifiers would be gained (such as WIS bonus or Full STR damage bonus).
You would need to roll two UMD rolls for emulation each hour (with failures meaning you couldn't try again for a day and would end up using them like normal "non-emulating" players).
You cannot use the class features you faked the item into thinking you had.
You can only emulate class features for items that require the class features to activate.
You are not faking the spells class feature when you trick a wand into working. There's an explicit rule for making that work, and it is not a part of the Emulate a Class Feature part of UMD.
You cannot emulate the capstone ability of a class and then use it. By your twisted logic, you can.
Stop bending the rules to cheese your way into higher AC and damage.
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You cannot use the class features you faked the item into thinking you had.
You can only emulate class features for items that require the class features to activate.
You are not faking the spells class feature when you trick a wand into working. There's an explicit rule for making that work, and it is not a part of the Emulate a Class Feature part of UMD.
Never said you could. In fact, have been very clear as to this (I thought). You don't "use" class features you emulate. The Robe MAGICALLY BESTOWS you the two benefits (higher AC and Damage). And you get NONE of the added free feats, WIS bonus, or STR bonus... which would come from HAVING the feature.
Name me ONE item that requires Class Features to activate. So they wrote in a useless rule? I don't buy it. Especially when they mention Class Levels as a result of the emulation.
Point 3 - I agree. I was simply pointing out that specifically you are ACTING AS A SPELLCASTER CLASS when you activate a wand. RAI here, as in the "olden days" before you couldn't ever activate Wands if you weren't a spellcaster they wanted a skill to let non-spellcasters do so. UMD was developed for this purpose, and because they had specific examples of what they INTENDED to be able to do with the skill, they wrote it in that way for wands, scrolls and such. Without this skill you wouldn't be allowed to use the Class Feature "SPELLS" to fake them into thinking you were "some level" of a spellcaster (incidentally scrolls are 20 + caster level = DC). LOL. That is sorta like Class Level = Result - 20, now isn't it? LOL.
Spells are a class feature of Wizard. Scrolls take Caster Level (Class level) + 20.
AC Bonus is a class features of Monk Class. Monk Robes take Result - 20 as the resulting Monk Class Level (which mathematically, is like emulating SPELLS FEATURE to get Class levels as a Spellcaster Class to use Scrolls).
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Wands require the spellcasting class feature with the stored spell on your spell list.
Hold on, I have many more examples.
Wands are covered seperately, and yes, it does state pretty clearly that you effectively "emulate" the SPELL on your list. Thanks for that. But yet you aren't a Spellcaster of any level. Hmmm... How did that happen? You emulated a Class Feature (Spells) and were treated as having CLASS levels as a Spellcaster high enough to cast the spell... imagine that! All using UMD. WOW!
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Require certain class features:
Crystal of Healing Hands
Doomharp
Soothsayer's Raiment
Ring of Revelation
Bracelet, Silver Smite
Bracelet of Mercy
Sash of the War Champion
Are these in modules? I am kind of curious as to how they were "crafted", as the crafting magic items section says nothing about limiting use based on class features, but does mention limiting them based on Class. (As I pointed out already).
I guess, in the end it comes down to this: They really need to clarify and update the item creation rules as well as what UMD allows you to do (I think its clear UMD was designed to let you use any item to its full effect if you succeeded your rolls). ATM RAW allow one to attempt to emulate a class feature if it would activate the item. The RAW allow crafting of "class lockable" items according to "you" (as nobody can emulate a class by your account). And RAW don't allow for "class feature" restrictions to Magic Item Crafting.
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Alrighty, found 'em. Again thanks.
The difference between the old and the new is what I am running into with this question. There are TWO old style items brought over and ONE crafting reference to CLASS as a restriction when making items. Nowhere in crafting does it say you can add a CLASS FEATURE as a restriction to an item (nowhere I could find anyway).
Which means, like I said regarding these two "throwback" items: they are class "locked" unless you allow a class feature to be emulated when activating their full potential. Which might be fine, if they had the Class Feature in addition to the Class in the crafting section (erata?).
And those of us old enough remember the days of "Useable by X(class) Only"... Robe, Monk's should probably be changed to restrict it to "anyone with the AC and Damage Class Features" to reflect the new age of PFS lingo, as should the Holy Avenger. And they need to change the Crafting to reflect that the restrictions are by Class Feature now as well. (Unless you have a bunch that are by class ready to list)
yep... the only "new" item with a class restriction is to "barbarian(or another class with Rage Class Feature)". So the "new" write-ups are all using class features the way the old items used class.
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Here is a dev opinion on such items.
Right here.
Well heck, that agrees with what I have said. "Use Magic Device will let you trick an item into thinking you're a different class" - James Jacobs.
Dangit... now I gotta read Oracles... lolz...
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OK. So that makes it pretty clear to me... You can emulate for level on the robes. It thinks you are a Monk Class (per JJ's validation). What level? The result per the RAW (CR-20). Add 5 levels for the AC and HTH damage.
You don't get the additional attack from stunning fist, the feat for improved unarmed, the WIS or STR bonus.
Even his later explanation was that you simply don't get the abilities (duh) of a character that level. Which is not what is happening with the Robe (but would need to with the Oracle example). You are just taking Monk Level and Adding Five and GRANTING AC and Damage based on that (basically it should be re-written to mean how they want it to run now that they have updated stuff, I expect it might be different than my interpretation, but stand by the RAW/RAI confirmed by JJ).
The fine line now is whether the emulated Class Level comes into play with the AC and Damage. Obviously, since it thinks you are a Monk of some level... the question is "what level". And while I might conceed on this item that "0" is the actual level of AC/Damage Ability that it is adding to (thus you end back up at 5th level), the description and the UMD RAW indicate you emulate a higher level and might recieve a larger bonus because of it.
Holy Avenger: You would get the +5 benefits and CAN emulate the Class Paladin.
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To RECAP:
Can use UMD to emulate a CLASS (JJ's statement).
May get no benefit from doing so (depending on item).
Oracle item = no benefit.
Monk's Robe = no increased benefit.
Holy Avenger = Tons of benefits.
Item Creation needs to be changed to add "Class Feature" as a restriction option and UMD needs to state one can emulate a Class as well as a Class Feature. (RAI - you were always supposed to be able to have a chance of activating any magic device).
I can live with this.
To RECAP:
Can use UMD to emulate a CLASS (JJ's statement).
May get no benefit from doing so (depending on item).Oracle item = no benefit.
Monk's Robe = no increased benefit.
Holy Avenger = Tons of benefits.Item Creation needs to be changed to add "Class Feature" as a restriction option and UMD needs to state one can emulate a Class as well as a Class Feature. (RAI - you were always supposed to be able to have a chance of activating any magic device).
I can live with this.
Actually, I'm pretty sure you couldn't activate a holy avenger as it's currently worded. The skill says "It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature." Nothing about the holy avenger cares about any class features - it just requires you to be a paladin. Likewise, nothing about any of the paladin class features requires you to be a paladin - it's quite possible for other classes (in theory) to gain those same powers via archetypes.
The things that this use of UMD clearly does work with, are things that say something like "In the hands of someone with bardic knowledge, this item provides a +10 competence bonus on all knowledge checks". You have to have the ability to activate it, but the item's power doesn't require that ability to work. The "your class level is equal to" part is for something that says "In the hands of someone with bardic knowledge, this item provides a competence bonus equal to their bard level on all knowledge checks".
Whether this is really the desired behavior of UMD, I couldn't say.