Coax Information Rogue Talent

[Douglas Muir 406]

Quote:

Benefit: A rogue with this talent can use Bluff or Diplomacy in place of Intimidate to force an opponent to act friendly toward her.

For Intimidate, you have to hit a DC equal to 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier. If it works, the target will "give you information you desire, take actions that do not endanger it, and offer other limited assistance". And then, "After the intimidate expires, the target treats you as unfriendly and may report you to local authorities."

Okay, so Question #1: if you use this Rogue Talent, does the target still treat you as unfriendly? It seems so under the RAW, but it's hard to see how that works with a Diplomacy check.

Then there's this:

"Fail: If you fail this check by 5 or more, the target attempts to deceive you or otherwise hinder your activities."

So, Question #2, is this still the case if the Coax Information Talent is used? Again, the RAW suggests so, but "Coax" to me suggests something gentler. Also, if the answers to both #1 and #2 are "yes", then this Talent seems a bit underwhelming -- you're just substituting one Cha-based skill for another. I guess it lets you save the skill ranks you would have invested in Intimidate?

Doug M.

[silverace99]

I know this post is a bit old but it interests me because I intend to take this feat as well...here is my take.

To me Coax Information means that you use a Bluff or Diplomacy check to raise a target to the "friendly" step, but it is not an intimidate.

If it still counted as intimidate I expect the wording of the feat would have been "A rogue with this talent can use Bluff or Diplomacy rolls for Intimidate checks."

Plus "Coax Information" by its very definition means gently or subtly extracting the information you need. It certainly should have nothing to do with making a person afraid of you or even more hostile towards you afterwards...

This also means you can't say something intimidating to your target and then say to the GM, "I threaten <some guy> and make a Diplomacy roll for it!" You still have to role play it as if you are being subtle. That's why I don't think Coax Information makes Intimidate redundant. If there is a situation where Diplomacy or Bluff would not work, you probably can't use Coax Information. You'd have to roll an Intimidate check using your Intimidate score.

[Gilfalas]

Seems pretty evident that you would use the rules governing the skills substituted instead of the ones for intimidate. Hence why the talent is usefull.

[TwistedNoob]

How would it work in regards to the betrayer feat?

Betrayer
Benefit: When you succeed at a Diplomacy check to change a creature's attitude, you can draw a weapon and make a single melee attack against that creature as an immediate action. If you changed your target's attitude to friendly or better, your target is considered flat-footed against this attack. If the target survives, it takes a –2 penalty on its initiative check for this combat. Once you attack a creature, its attitude becomes hostile.

Is the attitude change enough to trigger the free hidden weapon attack?

[Scott Wilhelm]

The thing is, you can already use Bluff to manipulate people. You use Intimidate people to manipulate people in another way. When you use Intimidate people in this way, they only stay friendly while you are interacting with them, then they will feel as hostile as ever, maybe even more so.

The only thing Coax information does is let you use your Bluff bonus instead of your Intimidate bonus. It doesn't change the nature of what you are doing. As soon as you walk away, your influence is gone, and you've just made yourself an enemy, only instead of them resenting the way you pushed them around, they'll realize after you were just lying to them.

Of course, when they catch up with your again, you might lie your way out of trouble again. If you've been dumping Intimidate to be a good liar, then you have a fair chance to fool them twice.

[Blakmane]

As an aside, this question has been answered in unchained:

Coax Information (Ex) : A rogue with this talent can use Bluff or Diplomacy in place of Intimidate to force an opponent to act friendly toward her. When the duration of the attitude shift ends, that opponents’ attitude toward the rogue returns to its previous level, rather than
dropping one level.

[Blayde MacRonan]

So how does the unchained version interact with the use of consolidated skills?

[Snowblind]

Blayde MacRonan wrote:

So how does the unchained version interact with the use of consolidated skills?

It would have to be altered by the GM i.e. they would have to house rule it to make it work with the big book of house rules aka Unchained.