| Mahavira |
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The title more or less says it all, but here goes: now that Demons, Devils, and Daemons have had their day, is there any chance that more exotic fiends could get a bit of detail work? Obviously what gets made depends on a combination of what the creative staff are interested in and what is considered to be potentially marketable. With the Dragon Empires gazetteer etc. out, and Jade Regent done, an Oni book might have some selling power and people might actually see an Oni outside of Jade Regent if a bit more was known about them (we have 30 odd years of lore about demons and devils, even if some of the details have changed). Rakshasa are even worse off - there is no Vudra AP (or even module, or is there?) though having read a few books setting the legend of Rama to the modern style of epic fantasy, I would actually be interested. Either Oni or Rakshasa would have been more interesting to me than Daemons (this is obviously a matter of taste, however). So, would anyone buy such a suppliment if it was written?
| Are |
I would buy them (there's almost nothing I like better than material on fiends!), but I'd prefer a "Book of the Holy" first, to further develop some of the celestials.
In terms of further Books of the Damned, Rakshasas get my vote. They're a pretty interesting bunch, in general, and
But I'd definitely buy any future Books of the Damned, regardless of which variation of fiend got the treatment within :)
| MMCJawa |
I would like to see this line continue...and a parallel line devoted to the good outsiders (Book of the Transcendent?)
Personally the evil outsiders I want to see the most info on are Kytons. From a cosmology and flavor standpoint, they are probably the most unique and influential outsider faction, yet we have the least information on. Especially since a book on Kytons could probably give us more info on the Shadow plan on Zon Kuthon.
| Icyshadow |
I would like to see this line continue...and a parallel line devoted to the good outsiders (Book of the Transcendent?)
Personally the evil outsiders I want to see the most info on are Kytons. From a cosmology and flavor standpoint, they are probably the most unique and influential outsider faction, yet we have the least information on. Especially since a book on Kytons could probably give us more info on the Shadow plan on Zon Kuthon.
+1 to this, seriously.
James Jacobs
Creative Director
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Well... several things immediately come to mind for me for how a "Book of the Damned" style book about celestials could be used...
1) It would have new celestials, which would include new allies for spells like planar ally
2) New player options like prestige classes, spells, and magic items that, unlike those presented in Books of the Damned, are not aimed at evil themes.
3) New deities (and associated benefits) for player characters to worship.
| Leo_Negri |
While I can see the use of a book on Inevitables and/or Proteans, I have no idea what I'd even do with a book on celestials.
Angel Fanatic as a villain? no one is Good Enough, even when they are good. Bigoted celestial who hunts Tieflings - because they are tieflings so that he can prevent the further spread of the fiendish contagion (genuinely sorry about what they do to good tieflings, but for the greater good they just can't be allowed the possibility of reproducing. . .)
| Mahavira |
Mahavira wrote:While I can see the use of a book on Inevitables and/or Proteans, I have no idea what I'd even do with a book on celestials.Angel Fanatic as a villain? no one is Good Enough, even when they are good. Bigoted celestial who hunts Tieflings - because they are tieflings so that he can prevent the further spread of the fiendish contagion (genuinely sorry about what they do to good tieflings, but for the greater good they just can't be allowed the possibility of reproducing. . .)
Only problem with that is that the Angel would probably cease to be good (or at least you'd end up having that argument in my group). Even if angels were doing the whole "strike down the firstborn" thing as divine punishment to an evil nation, I would expect most good parties to be concerned about evacuating the few righteous souls (or splattering blood on the door, however it goes). In any event, my group uses celestials (other than celestial monkeys as trap "finders") so infrequently that using regular celestials would be more than sufficiently exotic. I'd value an article providing advice on uses of celestials in a non-evil campaign beyond monster summoning more than a list of new celestials or details about the upper planes (while the weather is no doubt nicer, the average party of adventurers has less reason to go there than to the lower planes).
Possibly just a matter of perception and play style, but I would view a book of the sort Mr. Jacobs describes as a player suppliment, and consider the Books of the Damned to be DM suppliments.
Mikaze
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Well... several things immediately come to mind for me for how a "Book of the Damned" style book about celestials could be used...
1) It would have new celestials, which would include new allies for spells like planar ally
2) New player options like prestige classes, spells, and magic items that, unlike those presented in Books of the Damned, are not aimed at evil themes.
3) New deities (and associated benefits) for player characters to worship.
All of this plz!
Such books could also really expand the range of flavor for Team Good, just to kick the stereotype of "good is bland and boring" while it's down.
Mikaze
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As for evil outsiders we're hoping get the next Book of the Damned, throwing in for Kytons. A lot of the others I'd really like to see get their spotlight time as well, but the kytons are just singing to me at the moment.
Singing horrible horrible things. :(
Their not wanting to destroy the world(like many other evil outsider lines) and strict tenets and warped mindsets make them the ones I'm most curious right now. I just really like the idea of them possibly being perverse guardians of existence.
After all, without existence you can't have pain. And pain is proof of existence. Therefore....
The kytons are doing us a favor! :O Or so they say.
Set
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Yes to Rakshasa, Kytons and lawful/chaotic/good outsiders ('specially Proteans and Formians. Never really 'got' Inevitables...).
Not really feeling Oni (or Divs) quite yet. Need more of them before I begin drooling, I think. Same with Axiomites. Need more before I think they warrant a book.
I'm not sure anything is gonna make me care about Aeons. Sorry neutral dudes!
| cannon fodder |
Angel Fanatic as a villain? no one is Good Enough, even when they are good. Bigoted celestial who hunts Tieflings - because they are tieflings so that he can prevent the further spread of the fiendish contagion (genuinely sorry about what they do to good tieflings, but for the greater good they just can't be allowed the possibility of reproducing. . .)
...and other story ideas along this vein. People oftentimes forget that good and evil are determined through morality/ethics, which can easily vary among peoples, not to mention planes.
I'd be all for a book on the celestials. On the one hand, new options for players are always welcome. On the other hand... the look on the players' faces when an angel decends from the heavens, declares in a sad and somewhat incredulous voice that they have sinned, and draws his sword, is priceless!
| cannon fodder |
Well... several things immediately come to mind for me for how a "Book of the Damned" style book about celestials could be used...
1) It would have new celestials, which would include new allies for spells like planar ally
2) New player options like prestige classes, spells, and magic items that, unlike those presented in Books of the Damned, are not aimed at evil themes.
3) New deities (and associated benefits) for player characters to worship.
Oh, and I think this post is a HUGE hint from Mr. Jacobs! Just sayin'.
| gigglestick |
I'm all for a Book of the Damned Rakshasa. But I'm pretty oni'd out after Jade Regent.
However, if they do a book of Damned Oni, I'd like to see if they flesh it out more. I lost a lot of interest in Oni after seeing them in JR...they seemed more wierd than interesting there...
Then again, until BOTD3, I wan't all that interested in Daemons either...
James Jacobs
Creative Director
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So I still have yet to really look at Kytons in the bestiary 3, they're basically Pathfinders answer to cenobites?
Actually, Kytons, which first entered the game in Planescape back in the 90s, are D&D's answer to Clive Barker's cenobites. We just carried that torch on to its next logical destination.
| SwnyNerdgasm |
SwnyNerdgasm wrote:So I still have yet to really look at Kytons in the bestiary 3, they're basically Pathfinders answer to cenobites?Actually, Kytons, which first entered the game in Planescape back in the 90s, are D&D's answer to Clive Barker's cenobites. We just carried that torch on to its next logical destination.
See I never knew they were introduced in Planescape, I just wasn't a huge fan of that setting due to one disastrous campaign. Thanks James for teaching me something new today.