Should Pathfinder make high level more common?

[Mike J]

I'm not sure if Pathfinder should make more high level or not, but I was very surprised at how the game changed once the party hit the low-teens in my last game. The combats became very boring and difficult to follow/get excited about because each player/monster turn took so long to resolve.

Each player was making at least 4 or more attacks (some as many as 8) as a full attack. The math involved in both attack and damage required everyone to use a calculator (even the math specialists) - total damage per round was in the 140 hp range for each character.

The players had so many options and choices from all the special abilities and feats, they became overwhelmed and often picked the "wrong" choice (usually resulting in a death or two). The spells on both sides were often encounter ending. Every combat was like being on a razor's edge - one false move and it is all over.

Overall, it was not very fun for any of us and we all started out wanting a high-level game because it seemed so appealing. I think if a lot of the overhead were removed, it would be a lot more fun.

[Nemitri]

Not using high level content to me suggests that the game could use more improvements, it feels incomplete and hollow, its like owning a building and not using the space after the 12th floor because they are too expensive and people can't buy em (If you search for rich buyers, you are bound to make some sales).

[GM_Arbiter]

Add me to the camp for more high-level products. I can understand the decision to focus on what sells; that's sound business sense. I think this is a place where third-party groups can and do step up.

A book to help DMs with high-level play would be good, as well. Certain character classes totally change what can and cannot be used for high-level play. A guide of what each class can be expected to do at higher levels would help a lot of DMs out with it comes to designing adventures.

I'm currently running a high-level PBP game on the forums. Players routinely hit Perception DCs in the 40s and some have hit DCs in the 80s thanks to buffs. Their characters were built on a 15 point buy and use all Pathfinder material except for one or two 3.5 spells that are unrelated to their checks.

The entire party decided to be a stealth special forces type of group fighting at the Worldwound. Ambushing them outside of Scry and Fry is pretty much impossible. I don't mind, but it does remove a narrative tool from my storytelling toolbox. More creatures use burrow and total cover as a result. But, even then, the Stealth DCs can be hit on occasion.

I last ran a high-level game in 3.5. It took a while to get used to Pathfinder at higher levels because of the differences in classes and abilities. But I've got a better handle on it now. And coming up with crazy stuff to challenge the PCs is fun. A high level green dragon with his tribe of servant Pugwampis is just one example. It's like the werewolf who makes friends with a rust monster. Tips like that would be good for a book to guide GMs.

[Morain]

More high level content is exactly what I want. I'd love epic rules, and an adventure path that went to level 30.

[TheSideKick]

i would love playing super high levels, but my issue is once you pass level 12 this game turns into "how many magic items can i use at once". if my character needs a +10 weapon +10 armor +10 shield and 100 wonderous items to kill a cr 20 creature, its less about my character and more about how much wealth i can pump out.

if they change this ^ then i would love to play epic levels.

[BPorter]

shallowsoul wrote:

I have seen many class discussions about how they compare and a lot of people don't bother comparing 18 through 20th level abilities because they feel most games don't make it that far. Should Pathfinder come out with more high level material to increase the "sweet spot"?

More material doesn't increase the sweet spot. More material can help people run high-level play.

However, for many people, at the top levels the game's focus begins to shift as the "mundane existence" of the years of play. Once you're plane-hopping with regularity, mysterious goings-on at the town down the street seem less important.

For many, they want to level and face greater challenges but don't necessarily wish to abandon the style of adventures or setting that they've been spending years playing & developing.

And no amount of additional material is really going to change that.