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Well, if your own gender is something you're interested in examining, it's very easy (especially in the age of the internet) to play around with social and biological gender cues. You can try joining a new online community under a different identity, try out clothes or grooming techniques of the other sex, sort through media aimed at different groups, and see what's comforting and what feels awkward. Heck, you can even take hormone therapy for months before any real, permanent changes set in, to see if your brain reacts well to that change.
And as I found out from personal experience, pretending to be different than your sex can have a result outside of the expected possibilities.
I used to spend a lot of time roleplaying both online and off. The first time I tried a female character was just because of an unlucky die roll; playing a wild mage converted from 2E and I rolled a wild surge that changed my character's sex. So, I shrugged and played the character as a woman, only making alterations in personality as I felt might be necessitated by the switch (which were not many).
The fact I was so comfortable with it surprised the others; I had always played a male character before, so they were not expecting me to be able to pull it off so well. So, after that, I tried pretending to be a woman online, just to see if I could actually do it; I not only did it convincingly, but was surprised at how comfortable I was with it.
Then I tried it in yet another community as pretending to have neither sex, and was surprised again that I was comfortable with it (and actually capable of being convincing at it).
The above is what eventually led me to figuring out that those differences I had noticed between myself and my classmates were not just differences in experience... I actually perceived the world differently than they did and approached gender differently.
I've been searching for answers ever since.
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So I spoke at an LGBT rally against the awful bill I mentioned the other night. I was so very nervous prior to doing it, being my first time public speaking, and truly thought that I stumbled my way through it. Then I get done and people start coming up to me and telling me how amazing my speech was, and how well I did.Thank you for putting yourself out there for the betterment of the whole community, Cori!
You're very welcome. I figure if I have to suffer a little to bring happiness and fullness to others, I can take it. Because of that philosophy, I have a friend who calls me a real life paladin of Arshea.
Are there actual differences between the DM/FAB, AM/FAB and CAM/FAB terms? Or just that some prefer one or the other?If so, what makes one Coercive and others not?
My educated guess is that beyond personal preference, it is considered coercive if the person in question is intersex or there was a question at birth about their shysical sex. Or maybe if someone knew their actual gender at a very young age but was still treated as their birth sex.
There are probably also those who consider any gender assignment which does not involve input from the person in question to be coercive, although I think that might be going a bit far.
I'm curious about how correct my guesses are if someone who actually knows for sure would like to comment and correct me.
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My educated guess is that beyond personal preference, it is considered coercive if the person in question is intersex or there was a question at birth about their shysical sex. Or maybe if someone knew their actual gender at a very young age but was still treated as their birth sex.
There are probably also those who consider any gender assignment which does not involve input from the person in question to be coercive, although I think that might be going a bit far.
I'm curious about how correct my guesses are if someone who actually knows for sure would like to comment and correct me.
The difference is largely personal preference. Different writers and activists use different language, but they all basically boil down to "This is the role the world placed on me without my input."
"Coercively Assigned" does not specifically refer to intersex people and was coined by trans women, though the intersex community is beginning to adopt that language.
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On a fun note we are in the middle of Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi gras.
We cant go to the Parade this year Mrs 8th Dwarf is very heavily pregnant and she cant stand in one place too long...
One question I do have...
How does one keep up with the evolving terminology while dealing with a massively busy schedule? That is one problem I have; you've probably noticed some of what I used is a bit older in style and other bits are not entirely correct in how I used them.
I ask mainly because, anymore, my life is busy and I have a lot of other interests I keep track of. Plus, I don't actually follow the LGTB community as closely as I should due to all of the other political activism I'm involved with (environmental being the biggest).
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One question I do have...
How does one keep up with the evolving terminology while dealing with a massively busy schedule? That is one problem I have; you've probably noticed some of what I used is a bit older in style and other bits are not entirely correct in how I used them.
I ask mainly because, anymore, my life is busy and I have a lot of other interests I keep track of. Plus, I don't actually follow the LGTB community as closely as I should due to all of the other political activism I'm involved with (environmental being the biggest).
If keeping up with the terminology is your thing then find a good activist blog that you can read and just continue to read when you have time. I certainly can't keep up personally. Those were mostly all new terms for me. And I've only been out of the game for about 8 years. Terminology isn't very static as someone is always trying to coin a new phrase or word that better communicates ones own feelings about ones situation. In my day, transsexual was the term for what I am and transgender was strictly an umbrella term like trans* and included crossdressers and on particularly kind days drag queens. Cis was just starting to be used and we had other terms that were not quite as clean cut; I think female-born-female or fbf was one of them. Not everyone agrees that changing terminology will do anything but it changes anyway and keeping up with it is sometimes burdensome when you've spent several years talking about your experiences and find that those terms are no longer used or even PC.
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One question I do have...
How does one keep up with the evolving terminology while dealing with a massively busy schedule? That is one problem I have; you've probably noticed some of what I used is a bit older in style and other bits are not entirely correct in how I used them.
I ask mainly because, anymore, my life is busy and I have a lot of other interests I keep track of. Plus, I don't actually follow the LGTB community as closely as I should due to all of the other political activism I'm involved with (environmental being the biggest).
Keep in mind, modern trans culture is still pretty young. As recently as the 80's, the medical community was still forcing trans women to go deep stealth if we wanted treatment, and the few places we could gather we were considered the unwanted kid sisters of the gay movement. So we're still trying out a lot of descriptions and philosophy and rediscovering our heritage. Terminology and attitudes will shift a lot over time, and from place to place.
If keeping up with the terminology is important to you, find one or two good trans blogs, twitter feeds, or Facebook groups to subscribe to, and just make a little exposure part of your daily routine. If a really gripping article comes along, you can choose whether or not you want to take the time to examine it.
If you don't want to put in the effort to keep up with the evolving terminology (and the changes are pretty slow; terminology from eight years ago is still understood even if it makes you sound a little outdated), that's okay. But accept that you're probably going to hurt someone's feelings somewhere along the way and accept responsibility for it and apologize when it happens.
In the end, the biggest part of being an ally isn't keeping up with every nuance of the philosophy or knowing the vocabulary by heart, it's being willing to listen and not get defensive.
I haven't read the last page yet, so I don't know if any posts cover this even more. But I wanted to post this video for Kobold Cleaver and anyone else who might have some of the same questions about trans* people. Obviously this is just one person's experience, but she does touch on several things which I've seen in other trans* people's stories (not necessarily here in this thread), so her story definitely isn't one of a kind.
It also shows what a huge difference hormones can play, both ways.
I hope it gives just a little insight into the struggle some go through. I don't know her personally, just had it recommended to me by YouTube. There are quite a few transition videos out there, but this one has a bit more background than some of the others I've seen.
On a fun note we are in the middle of Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi gras.
We cant go to the Parade this year Mrs 8th Dwarf is very heavily pregnant and she cant stand in one place too long...
Love the Wonder Woman dancers around 01:45.
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Exactly. It'd be nice to just say it was transsexuality, but I think to do so would be insulting to transsexuals. Wanting to be a girl does not a transsexual make. ;P
I'm okay being an effeminate guy. That's who I'm comfortable being. Though I'll grant that it would be nice if people would stop assuming I'm gay... XD
I really do believe in the spectrum quality of gender. I'm effeminate and bisexual, though I have always been about 70/30 on my attraction to women over men. When I was four or five, I simultaneously had a crush on my best friend's 12 year old sister and Peter Gabriel, so my bisexuality was pretty set even back then.
While I'm comfortable for the most part being male (and I do love being able to grow an awesome beard), I have always, well, sorta "envied" women and both wished and thought I'd have been happier if I had been born female. I remember SEVERAL times where I pretended to be a girl when I was young; playing house with my friends and playing the wife, dressing up when no one was around, daydreaming, etc. Hell, my mom was so CERTAIN I was going to be a girl, she bought tons of dresses before she knew my gender - that was the only prediction she's ever gotten wrong, so that has always made me wonder, too.
I'm kinda caught leaning male over female in the spectrum because I feel like I'm happy enough as a man to live the rest of my life this way - I don't know if I'm prepared to give up that portion of my idenity for another no matter how much I've longed for the other. However, if there was a drink or magic spell to change my gender instantly, I would totally give it a shot.
People misgender me all the time until they see my enormous beard, and that's all while being dressed in so-called "male" clothes. With my body type, facial structure, long hair, and mannerisms, I could probably be gendered correctly by strangers if I got dressed up right now, but I'm scared of getting dolled up living in the panhandle of Florida :/
I echo what Crystal said: try rolling up a character in Pathfinder, or Skyrim, or WoW as the other gender and give it a try. I have always felt more comfortable playing women in those games and in the stories I write, which has always really driven home my limited level of dysphoria.
All I know is that I'm lucky to be married to the greatest lady ever; even if she wasn't bisexual, too, she's told me countless times that she'd support me and love me no matter how I chose to live my life :)
Thanks, Tirisfal, that's really helpful. A lot of it matches my experiences, in fact. Except the stuff about being married. And playing WoW--pfft, more like World of DorkCraft, amiriteorwut?
EDIT: In fact, I really, really tend to favor writing girls over guys, especially now that I'm more into kids' animation. Honestly, I'm a bit regretful that I'm starting to realize this stuff so "late" in my "online life"--most of my online communities have already been chosen. ;D
Exactly. It'd be nice to just say it was transsexuality, but I think to do so would be insulting to transsexuals. Wanting to be a girl does not a transsexual make. ;P
I'm okay being an effeminate guy. That's who I'm comfortable being. Though I'll grant that it would be nice if people would stop assuming I'm gay... XD
I really do believe in the spectrum quality of gender. I'm effeminate and bisexual, though I have always been about 70/30 on my attraction to women over men. When I was four or five, I simultaneously had a crush on my best friend's 12 year old sister and Peter Gabriel, so my bisexuality was pretty set even back then.
While I'm comfortable for the most part being male (and I do love being able to grow an awesome beard), I have always, well, sorta "envied" women and both wished and thought I'd have been happier if I had been born female. I remember SEVERAL times where I pretended to be a girl when I was young; playing house with my friends and playing the wife, dressing up when no one was around, daydreaming, etc. Hell, my mom was so CERTAIN I was going to be a girl, she bought tons of dresses before she knew my gender - that was the only prediction she's ever gotten wrong, so that has always made me wonder, too.
I'm kinda caught leaning male over female in the spectrum because I feel like I'm happy enough as a man to live the rest of my life this way - I don't know if I'm prepared to give up that portion of my idenity for another no matter how much I've longed for the other. However, if there was a drink or magic spell to change my gender instantly, I would totally give it a shot.
People misgender me all the time until they see my enormous beard, and that's all while being dressed in so-called "male" clothes. With my body type, facial structure, long hair, and mannerisms, I could probably be gendered correctly by strangers if I got dressed up right now, but I'm scared of getting dolled up living in the panhandle of Florida :/
I...
Ah, the Panhandle. I live down here on the Space Coast in Melbourne, and my girlfriend lives in Ft. Lauderdale.
Ah, the Panhandle. I live down here on the Space Coast in Melbourne, and my girlfriend lives in Ft. Lauderdale.
Yeah, and my home town is so conservative, it waged a war against Spring Break, despite it basically being ALL of our revenue. They claimed it wasn't "family friendly" enough even though, you know, families had vacations MONTHS after the kids dropped their cash and went home. These days it really doesn't happen like it did when I was a kid. Now all of our money is coming in from the conservative rich people out in Destin and Pensacola.
Despite the ruffled conservative feathers, we do have a pretty sizable LGBT community, but most of them act more like victims of circumstance than "out and proud", and many of us get bullied right back into the closet if we're too open about it. Hell, I'm not even really "publicly out" so much as I just don't try to hide my mannerisms anymore. I tried to hide it when I was younger, but I got made fun of by my bosses and coworkers anyway, so I just figured I'd go with it and that they could take a hike. It's working out for me a lot better these days :)
I felt a lot safer when I lived in Charleston, but I mostly hung out with good people so I managed to avoid the bad stuff.
Ah, the Panhandle. I live down here on the Space Coast in Melbourne, and my girlfriend lives in Ft. Lauderdale.Yeah, and my home town is so conservative, it waged a war against Spring Break, despite it basically being ALL of our revenue. They claimed it wasn't "family friendly" enough even though, you know, families had vacations MONTHS after the kids dropped their cash and went home. These days it really doesn't happen like it did when I was a kid. Now all of our money is coming in from the conservative rich people out in Destin and Pensacola.
Despite the ruffled conservative feathers, we do have a pretty sizable LGBT community, but most of them act more like victims of circumstance than "out and proud", and many of us get bullied right back into the closet if we're too open about it. Hell, I'm not even really "publicly out" so much as I just don't try to hide my mannerisms anymore. I tried to hide it when I was younger, but I got made fun of by my bosses and coworkers anyway, so I just figured I'd go with it and that they could take a hike. It's working out for me a lot better these days :)
I felt a lot safer when I lived in Charleston, but I mostly hung out with good people so I managed to avoid the bad stuff.
Oh wow, Charleston, SC? I'm from that area. Grew up in Summerville most of my childhood.
Oh wow, Charleston, SC? I'm from that area. Grew up in Summerville most of my childhood.Ah, the Panhandle. I live down here on the Space Coast in Melbourne, and my girlfriend lives in Ft. Lauderdale.Yeah, and my home town is so conservative, it waged a war against Spring Break, despite it basically being ALL of our revenue. They claimed it wasn't "family friendly" enough even though, you know, families had vacations MONTHS after the kids dropped their cash and went home. These days it really doesn't happen like it did when I was a kid. Now all of our money is coming in from the conservative rich people out in Destin and Pensacola.
Despite the ruffled conservative feathers, we do have a pretty sizable LGBT community, but most of them act more like victims of circumstance than "out and proud", and many of us get bullied right back into the closet if we're too open about it. Hell, I'm not even really "publicly out" so much as I just don't try to hide my mannerisms anymore. I tried to hide it when I was younger, but I got made fun of by my bosses and coworkers anyway, so I just figured I'd go with it and that they could take a hike. It's working out for me a lot better these days :)
I felt a lot safer when I lived in Charleston, but I mostly hung out with good people so I managed to avoid the bad stuff.
I lived in West Ashley but I worked/goofed off downtown. I made a day trip to Summerville one time; blew out a tire on the way, but it's a nice town :) People there are super nice.
Love the Wonder Woman dancers around 01:45.On a fun note we are in the middle of Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi gras.
We cant go to the Parade this year Mrs 8th Dwarf is very heavily pregnant and she cant stand in one place too long...
It's always spectacular, very loud, very clever and satirical.
Lissa and Crystal, thank you both.
It's not so much that labels are important to me; it's that, over the years, I have learned it is best to try to keep up on labels so that I avoid problems that come from misstatement. As you have undoubtedly noticed, I sometimes have issues expressing myself properly or expressing myself clearly. Plus, there is still my own search for answers.
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Sigh. Idaho.
HAha! Already withdrawn! I'm starting to suspect these bills are more about establishing their credibility as bigots to their bigot base than about putting any real effort into a losing fight.
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Pfft. Even if I am trans, I don't think I'm trans "enough" to justify making that kinda change. Let's just say I don't have the right body type.
I'm happy enough being male that I don't think I fit, though. I sometimes think I'd be happier as a girl, but I'm pretty sure it's just a vague fascination more than anything else.
Well, it is a spectrum. So you could experience a bit of gender variance without being full-blown transgender (or other degrees of transgender).
And I think a lot of non-trans people do occasionally wonder about what it's like to be the other gender. This is more of a certainty or a driving need, in my experience.
I play female characters all the time in computer games and often in tabletop games. It's important to get out of oneself sometimes.
If keeping up with the terminology is your thing then find a good activist blog that you can read and just continue to read when you have time. I certainly can't keep up personally. Those were mostly all new terms for me. And I've only been out of the game for about 8 years. Terminology isn't very static as someone is always trying to coin a new phrase or word that better communicates ones own feelings about ones situation. In my day, transsexual was the term for what I am and transgender was strictly an umbrella term like trans* and included crossdressers and on particularly kind days drag queens. Cis was just starting to be used and we had other terms that were not quite as clean cut; I think female-born-female or fbf was one of them. Not everyone agrees that changing terminology will do anything but it changes anyway and keeping up with it is sometimes burdensome when you've spent several years talking about your experiences and find that those terms are no longer used or even PC.One question I do have...
How does one keep up with the evolving terminology while dealing with a massively busy schedule? That is one problem I have; you've probably noticed some of what I used is a bit older in style and other bits are not entirely correct in how I used them.
I ask mainly because, anymore, my life is busy and I have a lot of other interests I keep track of. Plus, I don't actually follow the LGTB community as closely as I should due to all of the other political activism I'm involved with (environmental being the biggest).
I run into this a lot in both the first and second jobs. Terminology changes regularly. It's often confusing but usually leads to better outcomes for all.
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Also, remember when I said I was editing QUILTBAG erotica? Well, the place REALLY liked what I did - I'm not going to be editing piece by piece, I'm going to be their go to editor from now on! I already signed one contract for piece by piece work, another is being sent to replace that one with my new role as line and content editor!! I'm also getting a copy of the first work I edited sent to my house!
I'M FREAKING OUT!!!!!!
Also, remember when I said I was editing QUILTBAG erotica? Well, the place REALLY liked what I did - I'm not going to be editing piece by piece, I'm going to be their go to editor from now on! I already signed one contract for piece by piece work, another is being sent to replace that one with my new role as line and content editor!! I'm also getting a copy of the first work I edited sent to my house!
I'M FREAKING OUT!!!!!!
Congratulations, Freehold DM! It's such an awesome feeling when the quality of your work is rewarded. ^.^
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Also, remember when I said I was editing QUILTBAG erotica? Well, the place REALLY liked what I did - I'm not going to be editing piece by piece, I'm going to be their go to editor from now on! I already signed one contract for piece by piece work, another is being sent to replace that one with my new role as line and content editor!! I'm also getting a copy of the first work I edited sent to my house!
I'M FREAKING OUT!!!!!!
Free gay porn sent to you home? Best job ever!
Congratulations!
Freehold, I said this elsewhere, but I'll say it here too!
Grats! I hope the job is fun and you can stay at it a long time ^^
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Sigh. Idaho.
This makes me angry. What religion's tenets actually say it' ok, nay, expected that you should be dicks to people?
<facepalm>
I posted these in the moderation thread (where there's been a small debate about the word queer), and thought they'd be of interest to folks here.
A two-part article from Autostraddle on the history of the word queer.
They also have a two parter on the word gay.
And they have a nice image of a rainbow cat.
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We here in Idaho seem to have more than our fair share of seriously misguided individuals, but please don't hold that against all of us.
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Just because this amuses me—my partner just won a copy of Legally Wed at a reading, and by odd coincidence we're actually in the book!
Well, sort of... It's fiction, but partly set during a real event, the first night of weddings when WA got in marriage equality. It mentions folks serenading those waiting in line—and we were among the carolers. I guess that means we're in print as sound effects? :P
Virginia’s New Policy Allowing Transgender Student Athletes Bans Transgender Student Athletes.
Yup, it's as strange as it sounds.
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Virginia’s New Policy Allowing Transgender Student Athletes Bans Transgender Student Athletes.
Yup, it's as strange as it sounds.
Oh, that is sick! According Virginia, TEENAGE athletes, still in high school, can't play on their proper teams unless they've:
“undergone sex reassignment,” which means “surgical anatomical changes” including “external genitalia changes and gonadectomy”
I'll take this moment to point out that the YOUNGEST person to undergo sex reassignment surgery was 16, and that was in a nation with socialized healthcare so cost wasn't a barrier. Not to mention not all trans people WANT surgery, and forcing it on them just to be recognized as the correct gender is terrible.
Virginia’s New Policy Allowing Transgender Student Athletes Bans Transgender Student Athletes.
Yup, it's as strange as it sounds.Oh, that is sick! According Virginia, TEENAGE athletes, still in high school, can't play on their proper teams unless they've:
“undergone sex reassignment,” which means “surgical anatomical changes” including “external genitalia changes and gonadectomy”I'll take this moment to point out that the YOUNGEST person to undergo sex reassignment surgery was 16, and that was in a nation with socialized healthcare so cost wasn't a barrier. Not to mention not all trans people WANT surgery, and forcing it on them just to be recognized as the correct gender is terrible.
Yeah, that's a huge issue. Or set of issues.
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I'm a little torn on this. On the one hand, it's unfair and discriminatory, people should be able to live as they identify and raising more barriers is wrong.
On the other hand, sports tend to be divided up by sexes for competitive reasons, not just social ones, even in high school. A transwoman is going to have a significant in size, muscle and testosterone over her cis-female classmates. Much like a cis-female taking steroids would.
And a transman would be at a similar disadvantage.
Maybe students taking hormone treatments would come close to par, I'm not sure.On the gripping hand, the bait and switch nature of this policy just makes it ridiculous. And insulting.
Not true, especially if they start their transition early. If started early enough, testosterone blockers and estrogen, a young trans woman would not develop as a man. Likewise by taking testosterone trans men essentially develop the same as a cis teenage boy.
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Sigh. Idaho.This makes me angry. What religion's tenets actually say it' ok, nay, expected that you should be dicks to people?
<facepalm>
As it turns out, Kansas and Idaho didn't pass the law, but Arizona just did (warning: music/video). Not sure if if the Governor will sign it. One of the bill's sponsors defended it, arguing that it was already legal to fire gay (or trans*) people in AZ anyway.
*facepalm*
I've been sitting here breathing sighs of relief at hearing these laws got withdrawn. And then one state proves they're willing to pass it.
And it's Arizona... isn't that the same state that got taken to task for trying to override the federal government on immigration policy?
Hopefully the governor of that state refuses to sign it and the bill is killed.
Also, the paranoid part of me suspects the same organization was behind all three laws... three laws, with two as decoys and distractions. Which two entirely up to how much media attention it gets.
As it turns out, Kansas and Idaho didn't pass the law, but Arizona just did (warning: music/video). Not sure if if the Governor will sign it. One of the bill's sponsors defended it, arguing that it was already legal to fire gay (or trans*) people in AZ anyway.Sigh. Idaho.This makes me angry. What religion's tenets actually say it' ok, nay, expected that you should be dicks to people?
<facepalm>
Ugh.
*facepalm*
I've been sitting here breathing sighs of relief at hearing these laws got withdrawn. And then one state proves they're willing to pass it.
And it's Arizona... isn't that the same state that got taken to task for trying to override the federal government on immigration policy?
Hopefully the governor of that state refuses to sign it and the bill is killed.
Also, the paranoid part of me suspects the same organization was behind all three laws... three laws, with two as decoys and distractions. Which two entirely up to how much media attention it gets.
Also the state that went for the anti-trans bathroom bill.
Yep. Same group behind it, I bet. There's no way that bill showing up in so many iterations in so many states at around the same time period is coincidence.