Lets say you're doused in oil, and then hit with Alchemist Fire.
You take 1d6 fire damage and then roll to see if you Catch Fire from the Alchemist Fire hitting the oil.
Lets say you succeed and are not Caught On Fire.
At this point you are still on fire (alchemist's fire lasts two rounds) but are not Caught On Fire, and you are still covered in oil (you have not taken any measures to remove it).
The next round, when the alchemists fire deals damage again, do you need to make another save against Catching Fire?
Bump?
Lets say you're doused in oil, and then hit with Alchemist Fire.
You take 1d6 fire damage and then roll to see if you Catch Fire from the Alchemist Fire hitting the oil.
Lets say you succeed and are not Caught On Fire.
At this point you are still on fire (alchemist's fire lasts two rounds) but are not Caught On Fire, and you are still covered in oil (you have not taken any measures to remove it).
The next round, when the alchemists fire deals damage again, do you need to make another save against Catching Fire?
Interesting situation.
You're on fire. But the oil on you hasn't caught fire. So you're not on fire. You're simultaneously on fire and not on fire. I guess it makes sense if you try not to think too hard about it.
Per RAW, yeah, you probably would still have to roll the second round. I suppose you could logically say that you're patting at the flames and preventing them from spreading to the parts of you that have oil, but, meh.
Basically, you have oil on you. Then you have burning magical oil on you. The magical oil doesn't light up the normal oil on round one, but it's not just hurting you, it's actively burning, so it could still activate the nonmagical oil on round two.
Honestly, this is such a minor situation that it's the sort of thing your DM should just make a snap decision on. I'd definitely ask him if you're trying to set this scenario up. Otherwise, there you go.
Good luck. :)
If you manage to save vs alch fire you are no longer Catching on Fire. Alchemist flasks are ignited oil which splashes on target possibly Catching it on Fire. If you douse someone in oil and burn him, effect is probably same.
Not quite-
Alchemist Fire doesn't catch people on fire normally. It just burns for two rounds. Technically, it doesn't even have a chance of catching flammable materials on fire by RAW (just like fireball).
Which is where the problem lies. The description of oil says "if lit", and it seems like any fire damage should be able to light it, but it's not really spelled out.
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A pint of oil burns for 6 hours in a lantern or lamp. You can also use a flask of oil as a splash weapon. Use the rules for alchemist's fire (see Special Substances and Items on Table: Goods and Services), except that it takes a full-round action to prepare a flask with a fuse. Once it is thrown, there is a 50% chance of the flask igniting successfully.You can pour a pint of oil on the ground to cover an area 5 feet square, provided that the surface is smooth. If lit, the oil burns for 2 rounds and deals 1d3 points of fire damage to each creature in the area.
Yeah, here's the thing, in my example you are doused in oil first. It is not lit.
Then, the following round you are hit with something that does fire damage.
What happens?
Your example is faulty. The rules do not allow you to throw an unprepared flask on someone. The options are:
1) Throw the flask as a full-round action and have a 50% chance of it igniting like alchemist's fire.
2) Pour it on the ground, and light it on fire causing burning for 2 rounds.
Since this is complete departure from RAW, its all house rules.
How I would run it:
You throw the oil as a standard action (not prepared), it breaks on them, dousing them in oil.
You hit them with alchemist's fire, they take 1d6 fire damage, and everything within 5 feet takes 1 point fire damage from the splash.
This lights the oil, causing them to take another 1d3 fire damage.
Their turn, they can take a full-round action to try to put out the flames, if successful, this puts out all the flames.
If they fail, they take 1d6+1d3 from the second round of burning before all the oil/alch fire is burned up.
You could have instead thrown 2 alchemist fires, or done something else more useful. Let them get the oil burn damage.
That seems reasonable.
Second question: is there any way to get an enemy Caught On Fire?
Apparently even dousing someone in oil and lighting them gets you 1d3 damage for two rounds, so other than a few specific traps and monster abilities, how do you give someone the Caught On Fire status effect?
Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and non-instantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don't normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.
In our games we rule this to mean any non-instantaneous fire spell's, Wall of Fire for example.
-Flash
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That seems reasonable.
Second question: is there any way to get an enemy Caught On Fire?
Apparently even dousing someone in oil and lighting them gets you 1d3 damage for two rounds, so other than a few specific traps and monster abilities, how do you give someone the Caught On Fire status effect?
You can do it via some spells using alchemist fire as power component.
Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and non-instantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don't normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.In our games we rule this to mean any non-instantaneous fire spell's, Wall of Fire for example.
So that would mean that if you doused someone in oil you'd get the 1d3 damage from the burning oil, *and* a DC 15 save to avoid catching?
If so, would that save need to be made each round the oil burned?
Can Alchemist Fire catch someone on fire then?
Alchemist Fire is non-magical and it specificaly states the effect of the item as dealing 1d6 with an extra 1d6 on the folowing round.
I would say that Alchemist Fire, on it own, would not catch a creature on fire per the Heat Danger section of the rules.
Seems odd to me that if you tie someone to a chair and douse them in oil, then hit them with Alchemist Fire, that the worst thing that could happen to them is 2d6+2d3 fire damage over 12 seconds.
The alchemist fire on its own would not. The oil thing of course.
If alchemist fire is a non-instantanious fire effect, doesn't that mean it has a chance of catching something on fire?
If it takes regular oil to get a consistent burning effect, I can't imagine why any alchemist wouldn't just add regular oil to the mix.
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I am not really sure anymore whats bugging you. Alchemist fire does what alchemist fire does, you know that description. If target is soaked in oil he would burn each round per Catching on Fire rules. Alchemist fire would ignite the target because its silly to not think it would not. Spark is sufficient to light target on fire even if he is doused in oil.
Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and non-instantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don't normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.
Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character's clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out—that is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he's no longer on fire.
A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.
Those whose clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.
Make note that everything on target burns in that case.
Hope it helps
If alchemist fire is a non-instantanious fire effect, doesn't that mean it has a chance of catching something on fire?
If it takes regular oil to get a consistent burning effect, I can't imagine why any alchemist wouldn't just add regular oil to the mix.
I have stated this twice already, alchemist fire is not magical and therefore does not qualify as a non-instantanious MAGICAL fire effect.
please read the prd quote from my first post, or search the prd for catching on fire.
Lets say you're doused in oil, and then hit with Alchemist Fire.
You take 1d6 fire damage and then roll to see if you Catch Fire from the Alchemist Fire hitting the oil.
Lets say you succeed and are not Caught On Fire.
At this point you are still on fire (alchemist's fire lasts two rounds) but are not Caught On Fire, and you are still covered in oil (you have not taken any measures to remove it).
The next round, when the alchemists fire deals damage again, do you need to make another save against Catching Fire?
It sounds to me like you are trying to chain effects together like a Magic player or a wargames player. Just use a little common sense here. If you're covered in oil and someone hits you with anything fiery, you're Caught on Fire after the standard reflex save. Also if a person is tied to a chair, they are Helpless then and are denied their save.
Alchemist fire is not just oil you set on fire. It's an alchemical agent that ignites when contact is made with air. It will only burn its fuel for so long.
I have stated this twice already, alchemist fire is not magical and therefore does not qualify as a non-instantanious MAGICAL fire effect.
Alchemist fire is the equivalent of burning oil, the first listed source of Catching On Fire.
Oil: A pint of oil burns for 6 hours in a lantern or lamp. You can also use a flask of oil as a splash weapon. Use the rules for alchemist's fire (see Special Substances and Items on Table: Goods and Services), except that it takes a full-round action to prepare a flask with a fuse. Once it is thrown, there is a 50% chance of the flask igniting successfully.
You can pour a pint of oil on the ground to cover an area 5 feet square, provided that the surface is smooth. If lit, the oil burns for 2 rounds and deals 1d3 points of fire damage to each creature in the area.
I am not really sure anymore whats bugging you.
What's bugging me is the fact that it is damn near impossible to light things on fire.
Fireball and Scorching Ray don't do it (instant effect), alchemist fire doesn't (non-magical?), dragonsbreath doesn't even do it.
Let me say that again, so it will be clearer why this bugs me:
By RAW a red dragon cannot light your house on fire.
It can't light anything on fire. It just deals fire damage, and a few seconds later it's out.
A red dragon flies over a forest a spews flame down onto the elves below. What happens? A forest fire? Nope. The trees take 30-50 fire damage, which leaves them black and leafless, but basically fine.
Even a Fire Elemental, a creature which is comprised entirely of magical fire, can only catch something on fire for 1d4 rounds.
Fire damage, of nearly any kind, has zero chance of actually starting a fire.
It is utterly ridiculous.
/rant.
So what I'm trying to find is some rule anywhere that talks about lighting things on fire. The Caught On Fire rules are vague and never referenced by anything that should be able to start fires.
In games I'm running I want dragonsbreath to leave townsfolk forming bucket brigades.
When I play an alchemist I want to make Napalm.
The rule is there. Why doesn't anything use it?
Apparently the Tar Bomb is the only weapon that has a chance to really light things on fire.
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I dont see how Alchemist Fire = burning oil.
Being helpless does not mean you are denied your reflex save. Only that your dex is 0 ( -5)
The catching on fire is for creatures so when that dragon kills your horse, and it will, your horse essentially becomes an object and can burn all you want.
The burn special ability is (ex) non-magic.
Use common sense. is it an unattended and flamable object? Then it burns and burns.
While im here i should mention that some spells are non- instantaneous that should not catch a creature on fire.
-Gesyer
-Flambe Blade
-Produce Flame
ect.
Spells that do start fires
-Flame Arrow (Object)
-Burning Gaze
-Flaming Sphere
ect.
The catching on fire is for creatures so when that dragon kills your horse, and it will, your horse essentially becomes an object and can burn all you want.
Fire damage doesn't cause objects to catch fire unless it specifically states in the damaging effect that it does.
The catching on fire is for creatures so when that dragon kills your horse, and it will, your horse essentially becomes an object and can burn all you want.Fire damage doesn't cause objects to catch fire unless it specifically states in the damaging effect that it does.
Do tell. I'm having trouble finding that rule in the PRD. A link, or even a quote, would be great.
Do tell. I'm having trouble finding that rule in the PRD. A link, or even a quote, would be great.The catching on fire is for creatures so when that dragon kills your horse, and it will, your horse essentially becomes an object and can burn all you want.Fire damage doesn't cause objects to catch fire unless it specifically states in the damaging effect that it does.
Tag!
Tag!Do tell. I'm having trouble finding that rule in the PRD. A link, or even a quote, would be great.The catching on fire is for creatures so when that dragon kills your horse, and it will, your horse essentially becomes an object and can burn all you want.Fire damage doesn't cause objects to catch fire unless it specifically states in the damaging effect that it does.
Saw you were here; had to pop in to see who was wrong on the internet.