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I know there's been a bit of buzz about this line of spells since UM came out, and some folks have even mentioned the vast potential could provide the material for an entire guide. . .
So, anyone seen a guide for these spells? I daresay that I'm not suited to penning one, but I'd be more than happy to contribute ideas to anyone with the authorial fortitude to put one together.
Thanks for your time and attention, folks. May your wizarding ever break your GM's brains!
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My single favorite part is one feature of the Create Demiplane spell. (The standard one, not Lesser or Greater.)
I quote the PRD:
Structure: Your demiplane has a specific, linked physical structure, such as a giant tree, floating castle, labyrinth, mountain, and so on. (This option exists so you can pick a theme for your plane without having to worry about the small details of determining what spells you need for every hill, hole, wall, floor, and corner).
You ever read the 3.5 book, Stronghold Builder's Guidebook? (One of my favorite books in 3.5, and one I'm sad that Pathfinder doesn't have yet.) You could take any building you can design or imagine and put it in your demiplane... with ONE SPELL. Permanently; it lasts as long as the demiplane does. One 8th level spell, and bam! Instant doom fortress! Or giant cave behind a waterfall! Or anything! As soon as you have one casting of Create Greater Demiplane, you can Permanency that for about the cost of a permanent Mage's Magnificent Mansion... except now, you can reshape and change your demiplane with just one or two high-level spells and a few hours.
Plus, your demiplane is really hard to get into or out of.. it's about as secure as, say, Mage's Magnificent Mansion, but it's way bigger, and that Structure feature lets you make a pretty nice pad for your whole party, and all their friends.
The structure part is definitely one of the best aspects of the spell. I've been working on a demiplane of my own lately and pretty much relying on snippets of info from online to help me when I'm unsure of something. World creation also happens to be one of my favourite aspects of any kind of game, so I definitely support more love for the create demiplane spells.
I don't see any hurry to make it permanent, so the "expense" is only 500gp and the 4 hour casting time.
1/day a level is a long time. Surely in that two week period you'll find some time to renew everything for another two weeks.
As far as not being useful for combat, I just think you need a little imagination.
Besides planeshifting low Will creatures into your Demiplane, you can also open up a Gate to your Demiplane and bullrush the villain into it, or find some way to lure enemies in.
So I think there could be a guide to this, a short one, but there are a lot of combinations of things you could consider.
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Not really guides, but...
How Would You Use Create Demiplane?
...and...
What Would Your Demiplane Be Like?
...make for great sources of inspiration.
Thanks Ravingdork.
You also gave me a reason to consider the immortality feat as a much better level 20/ epic level campaign choice.
As mentioned in the first thread you linked, having a timeless demiplane to use for limitless preparation would have some nasty side effects, but immortality would circumvent those problems.
IN FACT I would say Demiplane is like a super time stop spell. Teleport to your demi plane, bind a bunch of creatures in your timeless domain, and then gate them back to location ready to destroy the encounter.
Demiplane is broken :p
Thanks Ravingdork.
You also gave me a reason to consider the immortality feat as a much better level 20/ epic level campaign choice.
As mentioned in the first thread you linked, having a timeless demiplane to use for limitless preparation would have some nasty side effects, but immortality would circumvent those problems.
IN FACT I would say Demiplane is like a super time stop spell. Teleport to your demi plane, bind a bunch of creatures in your timeless domain, and then gate them back to location ready to destroy the encounter.
Demiplane is broken :p
Except there won't be an encounter anymore. Looking at it now, I don't think you can have a "time-stop plane." The timeless trait makes it pretty clear that time still flows normally, it merely impedes time-based effects.
You want the flowing time trait, which can make a year on another plane be equivalent to six seconds on the material plane. However, the create demiplane specifically spell limits you to halving or doubling time on your personal plane.
Makes sense.
Still a great feature.
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You need the timeless magic trait and then cast timestop. You're the only one stopped, but it's something.
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You need the timeless magic trait and then cast timestop. You're the only one stopped, but it's something.
I'm beginning to think you are more devious than I am.
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You need the timeless magic trait and then cast timestop. You're the only one stopped, but it's something.I'm beginning to think you are more devious than I am.
We should compare notes. Of course if we do then one of us won't make it out. :-)
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Thanks for the links, RD; I think I actually posted in one of those, but lost track of it.
@Arbalester: My friend, I have that glorious book enthroned on my shelf. Unfortunately, I've never had the opportunity to use it in a campaign as a player. Hell, I've practically got the thing memorized by this point.
The various planar traits one can add the their little demesne are some of the most interesting ones to me. Been trying to sort out some cheese I can exploit with 'em. The minor positive dominant seems great for a health spa plane . . .
Some things noted here I don't find in the RAW....
1) You can't teleport into another plane - even a demiplane - only within the same plane. There are four ways given to get in a demiplane made by the spell as the spell(s) are currently written. A) When the spell is created you can bring folks in. B) Interplanar spells like Plane Shift (if you have the appropriate tuning fork) and Gate. C) A portal designed in the demiplane that is always open to a specific place - though you can build a door or barricade to secure the open portal. D) Transitory planar travel depending on where the demiplane was made (Astral adjacent or Ethereal Adjacent).
2) The permanency effect says it affects "the spell", not "the plane". So, if you create a feature that comes for free with the spell, then add another feature with another casting a permanency would only make one of the spells duration permanent. I don't see anything in the spell that says you can add many features from casting many spells and make them all permanent with a single permanency spell. One permanency per spell is required - unless you can show me where it says otherwise.
3)Time Stop effects the caster, not the universe. So a time stop spell cast in a timeless trait plane becomes permanent only for the caster, effectively stuck in the same moment in time forever until you get to a place where the spell can play out. (see: http://paizo.com/prd/spells/timeStop.html & http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mastery/planarAdventures.html) Maybe that sounds great, but it is apparent time, not actual time stopping. You still age the rounds you are in a Time Stop - everyone else does not. If those rounds are unlimited, since Time Stop does not allow the caster to dispel the spell early, you would be stuck in a demiplane if you had no way to exit it until you die, when you should appear as a corpse at the feet of those around you, unless your GM is ruling the spell never ends, even if you are dead. For everyone else , no time will have passed.
Any new data that disputes this?
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The best trait is the Fast Time trait which gets you 2 rounds inside the plane for every 1 on the Prime. The uses for this are numerous and include things like having two days worth of spells for every outside day (so use that time to cast long duration/permanent spells), can recover your spells in just 4 hours of "outside" time, you can craft magic items twice as fast, recharge X/day abilities faster, etc.
All the other features beyond that are gravy. (Though having a throne room with a throne stylized as Yggdrasil is some major gravy.)
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3)Time Stop effects the caster, not the universe. So a time stop spell cast in a timeless trait plane becomes permanent only for the caster, effectively stuck in the same moment in time forever until you get to a place where the spell can play out. (see: http://paizo.com/prd/spells/timeStop.html & http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mastery/planarAdventures.html) Maybe that sounds great, but it is apparent time, not actual time stopping. You still age the rounds you are in a Time Stop - everyone else does not. If those rounds are unlimited, since Time Stop does not allow the caster to dispel the spell early, you would be stuck in a demiplane if you had no way to exit it until you die, when you should appear as a corpse at the feet of those around you, unless your GM is ruling the spell never ends, even if you are dead. For everyone else , no time will have passed.
Any new data...
Sorry to necro a year-dead thread, but this is incorrect.
Yes, you would be stuck in the same moment of apparent time, but there is nothing in either the timeless trait nor the timestop spell that says you can't leave the plane (via gate, planeshift, permanent portal, or whatever), cast dispel magic on yourself to end the effect, or use another casting of Create Demiplane to remove the timeless trait. Unless you have no actual spellcasting ability, your spells would still come back for every "day" you're in. So, as long as you're not a rogue who cast Time Stop from a scroll or something (without having an appropriate scroll to escape), you're ok. Long and short: if you're capable of casting Time Stop, you're almost certainly capable of getting out of it; and if you're capable of casting Greater Create Demiplane, you're always capable of it.
The real question is, RAW, does the timeless trait apply to the Create Demiplane spell itself? (does the RAW allow you to bypass the permanency requirement as any noninstantaneous spell cast in the plane is permanent). So, make a timeless demiplane, once inside renew the casting and cast as many times as you want to customize. Obviously that's not the intent of the spell, but the rules lawyer in me wants to get other opinions.
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2) The permanency effect says it affects "the spell", not "the plane". So, if you create a feature that comes for free with the spell, then add another feature with another casting a permanency would only make one of the spells duration permanent. I don't see anything in the spell that says you can add many features from casting many spells and make them all permanent with a single permanency spell. One permanency per spell is required - unless you can show me where it says otherwise.
Oh, also, when casting the spell to create features, the duration is instantaneous. There is no need to make it permanent, it is by default (unless the plane itself expires).
"Alternatively, when cast within your demiplane, you may add (or remove) one of the following features to your demiplane with each casting of the spell, in which case it has an instantaneous duration."