| Cyberwolf2xs |
The answer is: it depends.
I'll quote relevant stuff.
Identify a spell as it is being cast 15 + spell level
Identifying a spell as it is being cast requires no action, but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast, and this incurs the same penalties as a Perception skill check due to distance, poor conditions, and other factors.
For while the spell is being cast.
A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
Identify a spell effect that is in place Arcana 20 + spell level
Identify a spell that just targeted you Arcana 25 + spell level
Identify the spells cast using a specific material component Arcana 20
And this for when it has been cast.
So... While you cast it, anyone able to percieve what you're doing (that probably means: as long as you don't cast a silent still spell) can try to identify it via spellcraft check, which could influence their reaction.
If they don't know which spell you're casting, but that you are casting, they could think you were trying to kill your target, depending on how well they know/trust you.
For some spells like charm person they don't even have means of knowing wether it succeeded or not (for a fireball, it is more obvious), so they'd probably react as if you had cast it successfully.
So at best, they'll ask you "hey, what did you just cast there?" or "why did you try to influence Bob?" and at worst, they'll scream "Spellcaster tries to kill Bob! Kill him!"
The target of your spell at least knows you tried SOMETHING (if you fail), which will pretty much upset most people.
He can even try to find out what you're doing (spellcraft while you're casting) or what you were trying to do (knowledge arcane after you're done).
In case of charm person, I think most people wouldn't outright kill you for casting it, but they probably wouldn't like it and... question your motives.
If you try cast a spell on the local king, well, the guards probably WILL outright kill (or at least incapacitate) you without even bothering to roll a spellcraft check.
| cmastah |
Thanks, that actually answers my dilemma, I was in several noble houses (one or more of whom may be the droids we're looking for) considering the idea. Problem is my DM is more reactive than proactive, meaning a warrior (even barbarian) only family would suddenly crop up spells in the area along with magic items whereas he hadn't considered it before (this is the same guy who tells us 'there's a darkened room ahead of you, too dark for you to see', 'I have darkvision', 'oh....it's a MAGICAL darkness effect').
Guess maybe trying to cast it from a position of stealth may be the best idea. (playing beguiler, changed HD to d8's to try and keep up with PF and kept the rest of the stats the same)
I guess when the effect wears off the guy probably wouldn't even know he'd been charmed, right?
| Cyberwolf2xs |
Stealth only helps you if you have silent spell metamagic, because you normally have to "speak in a strong voice" to cast a spell (which would probably blast your stealth).
So you'd better try to get one of the nobles alone.
Regarding the last question... err... There have been some discussions about that on these boards (just search for "does target of charm know it has been charmed" or sth alike), but I think the consensus is that the target does in fact know he'd been charmed, because otherwise, spells like Hypnotism wouldn't need to specifically call out that the target doesn't remember.
So maybe that spell would be better suited to you, even though it is more limited.
You could also hire a bard with 4th level Modify Memory.
On that strange DMing style... I know it. In my group, GMing used to rotate, and some people did tend to forget about the PCs abilities as well. And sometimes they adjust the world like yours, but some accept their failure and roll with it.
Once (in homebrew-setting 3.5) we were given a quest to find and retrieve a specific magical flower that only growed on some hard-to-reach mountain tops (to cure the local princess from a magical curse-disease-thing (that happened to be resistant to normal magic countermeasures). Most of the group started debating how we could reach the mountain tops when the druid stood up, said "Guys? Shut up, I'll do it." He said he wanted to use Wild Shape to turn into an eagle, roll knowledge nature and geography to reduce the area he'd have to search, fly above the most promising mountain top in a search spiral, grab the flower and come back to us.
The GM looked at the druid for about a minute while everyone else stared at him, smacked his forehead and said "Well... Sure. Quest solved, we're done for tonight. Wanna go into a tavern to celebrate?"
| cmastah |
He'd remember every detail of how he reacted to you and would immediately start wondering "Why did I do that?". If he saw you casting the spell earlier, he'd quite possibly put two and two together. Charm doesn't include free magical amnesia.
Heheh, guess it's a better spell to use on someone I'm meeting for the last time :P
@cyberwolf
I lol'ed on that flower story :)
Thanks for the additional info :)
Starglim
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Say I cast charm person on someone, is that a hostile act?
Most certainly. It is mind control. Without getting into comparisons that are not likely to go anywhere helpful, some characters will see it as worse than killing.
Will people nearby (say in a huge room) turn on me?
They will want to know why you cast a spell on someone. If they know what spell it is (Spellcraft), they'll want to know why you tried to enslave him with magic.
If it fails, what is the reaction of the guy I tried to charm?
You cast a spell at him - draw steel. If he knows what spell it is, see above.
Diego Rossi
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Suggestion, making it something very believable and/or agreeable can work if you are capable to keep the casting hidden (if I recall well the Beguiler get that ability at some level). Teh target can think you have a silver tongue and smack his forehead thinking "Why I have acquiesced to this request?" but he will not necessarily think it was magic.
About the Beguiler, you are using him with the 3.5 spells list or with Pathfinder only spells?
The 3.5 list make him extremely powerful, with something like 120+ spell know when he get the 9th level spells.
Giving him a 8 hp HD is a overkill.
| Lab_Rat |
Attack? Yes. Plain and simple. I usually use this test for determining if reactions to a spell are hostile. Is the spell beneficial or neutral to the target and/or those around you? If not, then they could consider it a hostile act.
By raw there is nothing you can do to hide the fact that you are casting a spell. The spell has verbal and somatic components so anyone near by is going to wondering why this wizard looking guy is saying odd word combinations and waving his hands around like crazy (aka: they know you cast a spell). You would need silent and still spell in order to fully hide it (a rod of each would work).
You could just cast the spell in the open and use a bluff check to lie about what spell you just cast. -OR- You could houserule that a bluff check could be used to disguise the hand motions and words as something other than a spell being cast.
Either way, if the opponent makes their save they are going to know that a spell was cast on them but it failed.
| Knight Magenta |
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He'd remember every detail of how he reacted to you and would immediately start wondering "Why did I do that?". If he saw you casting the spell earlier, he'd quite possibly put two and two together. Charm doesn't include free magical amnesia.
Though charm person does say that the target "...perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way." While the charm is going, the target would know that he was charmed, but would see it as a good thing because now he's friends with such a great guy!
Also, after the charm is over, those memories still remain. If you did not act particularly horrible, the target will remember being your friend.
This is why Charm Person and to a lesser degree, the whole charm sub-school is far more evil than any necromancy. You are twisting a person's free will.