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Alright. A Paladin in the group has a glaive-guisarme, combat reflexes, and armor spikes. I am trying my first campaign (after not running 3rd for 10 years, let alone PF), so here come the questions.
Point 1 - AoOs. The players are tellin me the characters Attacks of Opportunity (he has 3 per round) 'reset' if during the round he uses them all up before its his turn in the initiative order. This sounds very very fishy - he should only get 3, not 6 as they are try to sell me).
Point 2. He blows through his attacks of opportunity to all that go through his reach area, then on his initiative, while still armed with the glaive, does not move but attacks with the armor spikes to any adjacent foes. This sounds closer to legit, but would this be effectively an 'off hand' melee attack bringing up attacking with 2 weapons penalties? even though armed with a two handed weapon? what gives here?
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His AoOs reset on his initiative in the order.
Two weapon penalties only apply if he is using two weapon fighting to gain an additional attack.
So#1 -Say he gets 3 AoO per round (attack of opportunity); He goes on 14 in the round. 3 AoOs get triggered at 21; he uses them all; 14 he attacks with the armor to an adjacent target. his AoO's get reset - but he cannot use them until next round because he has already done his alotment for the round....sound right?
1) He gets 3 aoo's available to him between the moment his turn begins until the moment before his next turn begins. So, he goes, he attacks. Some time after his turn 3 different aoo's are provoked and he takes them all. He has no more aoo's until just before it is his turn again. Once it is his turn, he has all 3 available aoo's, and may use them, even on his turn (there are a few ways aoo's can be provoked on his turn), and even if the first 3 aoo's were used in the turn immediately prior to his turn.
2) he can attack with his armor spikes with no penalty, as long as he does not also use his glaive on his turn for his normal or iterative attacks, even if he had used his glaive exclusively for all aoo's.
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So#1 -Say he gets 3 AoO per round (attack of opportunity); He goes on 14 in the round. 3 AoOs get triggered at 21; he uses them all; 14 he attacks with the armor to an adjacent target. his AoO's get reset - but he cannot use them until next round because he has already done his alotment for the round....sound right?His AoOs reset on his initiative in the order.
Two weapon penalties only apply if he is using two weapon fighting to gain an additional attack.
Don't worry about what initiative count he goes on. When the round goes to the top of the round or ends is irrelevant.
Using your example, in round 1, his init comes up. He attacks and his AoOs reset. Before his next turn, he can take three AoOs. When his turn comes up, his AoOs reset. He can now use three AoOs before his next turn.
Using the initiative counts, on 14, his AoOs reset and he attacks. At the top of the next round, on init count 21, three AoOs are provoked and he takes all three. On init count 14, his AoOs reset and he attacks. On init 12, for example, if three more AoOs are triggered, he could take those three. He could not take any more until his turn in initiative comes up. Yes, he would have taken 6 AoOs in the round (3 on 21, 3 on 12). It's a rare situation, and it works out in the end.
Well yes and no to 6.
In round one he isn't entitled to any AoO's normally as his initiative hasn't come up and he is 'Flat Footed'. After his initiative triggers he may begin to make AOO's... he gets 3 of them available to him at that point (which he may trigger on his turn or after his turn).
When his initiative comes up again anything not used is lost, and he gets a fresh set.
He will still only be getting 3 a round.
He is not really getting 'six'.
If he has Combat Feflexes, he can male AoOs even if flatfooted.
True, and I suppose he paid a feat for that benefit...
Can't fault him for spending his Feats wisely :)
OP: Normally people would have far fewer AOO's, its just the one thing he is doing really well, and he has made a trade off elsewhere to do so.
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How would combattants react to this glaive weilder? someone dominating a space like that creates an imobile barrier. Shooting him with missiles is the only likely idea, but that requires brains. I am faced with a dilema - how to challenge this character without looking like it or without endangering other (squishier) pcs.
How would combattants react to this glaive weilder? someone dominating a space like that creates an imobile barrier. Shooting him with missiles is the only likely idea, but that requires brains. I am faced with a dilema - how to challenge this character without looking like it or without endangering other (squishier) pcs.
I don't think you have to be much of a savant to work out that if you have a ranged weapon and a short weapon that one of those is likely to work better against the guy with a long weapon. Anything smart enough to be carrying a ranged weapon in the first place knows what it's for. An orc isn't particularly clever, but it has a javelin for hitting things that it can't safely hit otherwise.
Other than that, spells, spell-like abilities, and being tough enough to simply eat a glaive attack are all things that work. The character is going to shine brightest in scenarios where he can effectively block an entire passageway, so if you're running a lot of encounters in narrow passages or aboard long, skinny boats, mix it up a little bit.
@Indivar:
The problem you are having is missunderstanding what a "round" is. A round is not what happens when you go through all turns in highest-to-lowest initiative order.
A round is: each PC/NPC has their own individual round, that goes from the start of their initiative, to the start of their next initiative.
Your paladin gets 3 AOOs a round, in other words in the time when he has his initiative until his next initiative he gets a total of 3 AOOs.
What was happening in your game is that you counted a round from the highest initiative order to the lowest - in that the paladin would have 3 before his initiative, and then on his round his 3 would reset and he's have another 3 before the end of the "round" that you were using; this creates the illusion of 6 AOOs a round.
Here's another good and relevant example: if a monk attacks with Stunning Fist and successfully stuns a foe, the stun lasts for 1 round. This goes from the moment the monk stunned the foe, until just before the start of the monk's next turn. (If there is some trick that changes the monk's initiative, the stun lasts until the next time the initiative is reached at which the stun happened.)
Actually a round does contain every one's turns, but for the purpose of keeping track of abilities that have a duration, such as spells you track them with regard to that creature's imitative.
Combat Reflexes resets at the beginning of the round.
Round: Combat is measured in rounds. During an individual round, all creatures have a chance to take a turn to act, in order of initiative. A round represents 6 seconds in the game world.
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I realized the point Lorekeeper just made a few posts back , and appreciate afirming it.
One other thing which i have trouble grasping is the encounter level theory. Its an idea that i like, but i cannot grasp the way to go about building an encounter and being 'within' the el.
Example - the combat they just had was 7 dogs and 2 riding dogs. no one was hurt and they easily dispatched them all in 3 rounds. add the xp up it was like a cr 5 for 5 1st levels - an Epic difficulty. paladin killed like 6 of them alone.
This should be another thread,i know, but any advise here as well is appreciated.
CR(challenger rating) is not an exact science but generally speaking if the CR number is equal to the APL(average party level) the fight will normally be easy, but it should still eat into their resources.
The boss fights are normally at APL +3 or higher which means the the CR will be 3 higher than the APL.
Example:
4 level 4 characters have an APL of 4.
A boss fight would a CR 7 fight for them.
If the group is really tactical and/or good at building characters the GM will have to adjust for that.
Regarding your CR: you calculate correct in that a 7 dogs and 2 riding dogs make a CR 5 challenge. In this case your paladin happened to have the right "solution" in hand (i.e. a reach weapon with Combat Reflexes) that allowed him to slay through 6 dogs before they could be really relevant.
In cases where an encounter favors a party (by making the actual encounter much easier than the intended level), it is the GM's right (and duty really) to adjust the CR down a notch or two. I think in your case a CR 3 encounter is still fully fair. However, note that just because the paladin has a reach weapon and Combat Reflexes not every encounter should be reduced in CR: his build lends itself to solve certain situations, and he should be rewarded for it too.
On the other hand this goes the other way too, it is readily possible that a CR 1 encounter (say a single riding dog) should be adjusted by the GM to a CR 2 (or even CR 3) encounter due to (for the party) unfavorable circumstances. For example: imagine the party has already finished a really tough adventuring day, they all have around 2hp, have run out of spells and consumables and daily powers like channels. Now they sleeping and have one guard posted. This is a very dangerous situation for the party (a single failed perception check by the guard could very well lead to a TPK).
In other words, the individual CRs of creatures should not be considered in a vacuum, but balanced a little against the relative strengths and weaknesses of the party, against the bonuses or penalties the environment provide, against the advantages or disadvantages that are part of the situation.
A party's strength/weaknesses can be that they are well classed to take on undead (lots of paladins, clerics, inquisitors, rangers with favored enemy undead, etc).
An environment can give benefits or penalties in many ways, for example if the party needs to fight a bunch of fire elementals while inside a lava stream. The lava doesn't hurt the elementals - but it is a threat to the party. Here the environment makes the encounter harder and the CR should be adjusted. If they had to fight other humans in the lava though, this would not factor in, as both parties would have to contend with the lava.
A situation can bring all kinds of advantages or disadvantages; consider for example that it could be the party's duty to protect an NPC. Some encounters designed specifically to ambush the party with the purpose of killing the NPC are at a higher difficulty as the party can more easily "fail" at their task than be taken out by the encounter. Likewise, a situation could have the party attacked by an enemy that does *not* intend to kill them (i.e. uses non-lethal damage, grapples and pins, etc) - such a situation is easier on the party and the CR can be lowered a bit.
Obviously this is all a matter of GM adjudication, and will come naturally to a GM as (s)he gains experience.
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I am really nervous about the CR thing - i have some encounters planned that will put the EL to the test....leveled leader types with mooks and pets, using advantageous terrain/traps ect; if i am not careful about some of those (splitting the encounter into bite sized chunks), it could be a tpk, but if i stray the otherway its 3 rounds and the party takes no damage...
2) he can attack with his armor spikes with no penalty, as long as he does not also use his glaive on his turn for his normal or iterative attacks, even if he had used his glaive exclusively for all aoo's.
Just to clarify here: Your player can use either his glaive or armor spikes to make his AoOs. And he suffers no penalties to his attacks unless he chooses to use Two Weapon Fighting Full Attack to generate an extra attack during his turn.
It is perfectly valid to use your glaive to make your AoOs and on your intiative count take your single attack with your Spiked Armor, with no attack roll penalties.
I am really nervous about the CR thing - i have some encounters planned that will put the EL to the test....leveled leader types with mooks and pets, using advantageous terrain/traps ect; if i am not careful about some of those (splitting the encounter into bite sized chunks), it could be a tpk, but if i stray the otherway its 3 rounds and the party takes no damage...
It helps to have one or two contingencies planned. Perhaps when the fight is going badly for the PCs and they lose, they find themselves when they wake-up again in the prison cells of "leveled leader".
Not all CR's of the save numerical value will work out the same way. It depends on the monsters, and what the players are using also.
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2) he can attack with his armor spikes with no penalty, as long as he does not also use his glaive on his turn for his normal or iterative attacks, even if he had used his glaive exclusively for all aoo's.Just to clarify here: Your player can use either his glaive or armor spikes to make his AoOs. And he suffers no penalties to his attacks unless he chooses to use Two Weapon Fighting Full Attack to generate an extra attack during his turn.
It is perfectly valid to use your glaive to make your AoOs and on your intiative count take your single attack with your Spiked Armor, with no attack roll penalties.
There is thread/post/FAQ where this question has been clarified?
As far as I know, you can alternate your attack as you see fit during your round, so a guy with 3 iterative attacks can go glaive/spikes/spikes (or whatever combo he like).
But what happen when he get his (multiple thanks to combat reflex) attacks of opportunity? I must use his armor spikes as the last attack was with armor spikes? He can chose between glaive and spikes but then he should stick to his choice for all the AoO in the round? Or he can alternate as he see fit?
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I know that perfectly, but that is not the question I asked.
There are plenty of situations where you can have targets at different distances ad where a guy at 10' provoke and then another guy at 5' provoke, so the question is if, with the reach weapon+armor spikes combo and combat reflex you can attach both.
I reckon you can use the one you choose.
AoO are not part of your normal attack chain, and as both weapons are 'readied' you can use either.
It would only become a TWF issue if you used the Spikes to get an extra attack in your normal attack sequence.
I reckon you can use the one you choose.
AoO are not part of your normal attack chain, and as both weapons are 'readied' you can use either.
It would only become a TWF issue if you used the Spikes to get an extra attack in your normal attack sequence.
Exactly. You may use any weapon at your disposal (that you are "armed with") to make an Attack of Opportunity against a threatened foe. These attacks come at your full attack bonus.
Making an Attack of Opportunity: An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round. You don't have to make an attack of opportunity if you don't want to. You make your attack of opportunity at your normal attack bonus, even if you've already attacked in the round.
So, to answer your question Diego, yes you can use your glaive and your spikes to make AoOs.