Monk of the 4 Winds and Slow Time


Advice


Disclaimer: Rambling
Slow Time

Has anyone managed to successfully break this class feature? (or at least justify the 6 ki)

I did a quick search, didn't see much.

Vital Strike doesn't do it because full attacks(even without spending a ki) are better. (and the fact that striaght monks never qualify for GrVS only makes this worse)

Spoiler:
some quick numbers off the top of my head

Monk 20 = 2d10 -> 6d10 ~ 33
Monk 12/Full 8 = 2d8 -> 8d8 ~ 36
Monk 16/Full 4 = 2d10 -> 8d10 ~ 44
(as long as level 20 = fighter(1/even) && BAB = 16, I think you end up okay there)

vs FoB
assuming any kind of decent Str + PA, this should exceed VS. Add in Medusa, or anything else and it's no question.

From what I've seen from my forays into exploiting Furious Finish, not even a fatigue immune Barb can stretch the numbers that far.
It's a big hit, and Mot4W/Oracle(or HW)/Barb/Fighter could potentially deal some solid damage. And being clutch, it could also justify the 6 ki (even though VS would be taken without the BAB boost from flurry)

But, it seems like an awful lot of resources to dump into a panic button.
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I also looked at tiger claw, but that seems to underperform VS unless you have ridiculous amounts of str.


The thing about slow time is that it allows you to move with a standard action, then full-round a flurry of blows. If all your combats happen to start at 5' of your enemies, then it's useless.


Archaeik wrote:


Has anyone managed to successfully break this class feature? (or at least justify the 6 ki)

I would choose it over abundant step anyday.

Hopefully the power don't have to be broken to find a place at the gaming table.

Like yourself, I was considering the furious finish combo for it. If you want to try and get the most out of it, I'll suggest going monk 15 + whatever you feel like (although barb could be efficient), and taking all the vital strike feats.

Buy yourself a Giant Hide Armor to go become huge size, bumping your unarmed attack damage to 6d8. With strong jaw running, your damage dice is going to be 12d8 (or something thereabout, since the progression doesn't follow standard values).
Making 3 Vital Strikes for 48d8+bonusses could be fun. Use furious finish on the last one, and got yourself an attack that is going one-shot most creatures in the book.

Generelly I think 4-winds are a strong choice. Like I said before, I'd take slow time over abundant step. Apart from this they can get something quite useful (hello insane-range-pounce or fly) instead of timeless body, which is almost purely fluff.

Sovereign Court

Other than Vital Strike, its obvious application is combat maneuvers.

Or possibly some heavy buffing.


Do this.

Three times.


Quote:
The thing about slow time is that it allows you to move with a standard action, then full-round a flurry of blows. If all your combats happen to start at 5' of your enemies, then it's useless.

Slow time doesn't allow you to combine the standard actions into a full attack (so no flurry, period)

Nor does it allow the use of spells or SLAs

However, I do think I've been reading it incorrectly, I've been assuming that it replaces your turn with 3 standard actions, but it really only converts your swift into 3 std, leaving you a move/std before or after.

Anyway, my curiosity isn't strictly about breaking the game, but finding a reliable consistent use for this ability given its restrictions.

I agree that Mot4W is a strong choice in general, but the primary benefit of the class is available through 2 feats now.

I like the style suggestion, could work out okay, even if it's quite resource intensive.

Thanks all.


Hmm, it's murky water here, but something I've given thought to. I'm going to reprint it here in full.

Slow Time wrote:

At 12th level, a monk of the four winds can use his ki to slow time or quicken his movements, depending on the observer. As a swift action, the monk can expend 6 ki points to gain three standard actions during his turn instead of just one. The monk can use these actions to do the following: take a melee attack action, use a skill, use an extraordinary ability, or take a move action. The monk cannot use these actions to cast spells or use spell-like abilities, and cannot combine them to take full-attack actions. Any move actions the monk makes this turn do not provoke attacks of opportunity.

This ability replaces abundant step.

The bold part is the part I'll be referencing. It says gain 3 instead of just one, but doesn't say anything about losing your normal move action. Based off the wording, I would say that you have 3 standard and 1 move action. If this is true, I would say you could move, and have 3 standards left for Combat Maneuvers. Since you have 3 standard actions, you could, in theory, trip + grapple + pin in the same round. Or Disarm + Trip + Grapple. Or rescue that Wizard from the Fighter about to chop him in two. Whatever combination you can think of.

Like I said, the part about not losing your normal move action is murky, and probably up to GM ruling. But by RAW, I think it's true.


Not just by RAW, but I suspect by RAI. I don't see any reason to believe they tried or wanted to remove or replace the monk's move action.


Do wands/scrolls still work with the standard actions, or do they fall to the no spell/SLA clause? how about wonderous items that can generate spell effects like a necklace of fireballs? (Throwing 3 10d6 fireball beads a round would be pretty cool, though probably not optimum.)


I know this doesn't apply to many, or most, games... but the first time I saw the Slow Time ability, I've wanted to gestalt it with a Mobile Fighter. 20th level, 3 full attacks in a turn.


Huh, well I guess Great Cleave might be an option of sorts as well... the challenge being to get sufficient reach (not that hard), and then to convince your enemies to stand adjacent to each other.

Re: wands etc
Scrolls are still going to count as spells, I don't see wands/staves being that much different.
I imagine command word items that cast a spell also count.
However, potions should work... (even though you technically are both caster and target, so this is a bit sketchy per the descriptive text)

Trying to think what other kinds of items are out there...
I think things like Ring of the Ram should work.

Actually, wait...

Quote:
The monk can use these actions to do the following: take a melee attack action, use a skill, use an extraordinary ability, or take a move action.

A strict reading means you really can't do much, including activating the ring.

It also excludes Su abilities since they're not listed.
Ewww. (I wonder if that's actually RAI)

The Exchange

With the gaining 3 standards instead of just 1, I feel RAI would mean you can combine your regular move + standard into a full then still have 2 standards. But you can't combine the standards into fills, they didn't want to give 2 flurries for 6 ki.


Hmmm a couple of related pie in the sky ideas.

1.) Most of my Monk/Druid hybrids end up with 12d8 base unarmed damage.

2.) Improved Vital strike would take that up to 36d8 (3x damage)

3.) If all 3 hit, that's 108d8 damage, plus change.

4.) A drunken Master could start every combat like this by topping up his drunken ki pool with a flask of endless sake.

Its not a bad way to go.

prototype00

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