I have an idea for a Mystic theurge but I cant figure out how I would implement it without sacrificing too much. The story is he's gona be a tiefling abyssal sorcerer who is taken in by an artifact hunting wizard. The wizard works for demons who are using him to search for artifacts that allow them to wreak havoc in the material plane. During their artifact hunt my character's master is killed and my character gets touched by old magic granting him a curse and great power(the oracle) he then spends the game balancing the knowledge he receives from his mystery and the power that calls to him from his heritage. He was going to be a Words of Power caster and the story of the character fits well into my GMs campaign story and I really want to find a way to make it work mechanically. The biggest problem I run into is the caster level vs character level. Theurge's pre-reqs need 2nd level spells for both. As a prepared caster that means 3 levels of each class then theurge, 7th level character 3rd level spells. That is pretty harsh but workable. The spontaneous caster have to be 4/4 so theurge at 9th character level with 3rd level spells. I'm really trying to find a way to offset the hit I take to spell levels but i haven't been able to find anything, especialy since i wont be gaining blood line powers or additional benefits from my mystery.
Your first mistake with making a MT is combining spontaneous classes.
You wont get any of the cool sorcerer or Oracle abilities past level 4 in each class. Also you'll be 4 levels behind the party in each class as far as spellcasting is concerned.
Go wizard/Cleric if you want to maximize the build.
This is TCG from above. Check out this character profile. He may not be "optimized," but he's pretty badass if I do say so myself.
MT starts out weak IMHO anyway, but it gets better later on. If you are not playing into high levels you might be better of using a different class to represent the concept.
You are also using two classes that progress slower than the prepared casters so that is even more of an issue.
I have given sorcerers access to spells known and spells per day as if they were one level higher, and it has not been an issue. You can try to talk the GM into that.
Running a witch, and changing the flavor might work better unless there are certain spells you are trying to get that the witch does not have.
Another option that might fit the concept would be just going full Oracle and take the Eldritch Heritage feat line. If what you described is just back story, it would fit just fine (especially if you start at least at level 3 so you can have your first bloodline power).
Depending on the Mystery, you can get some spells from the sorcerer list as bonus spells. You can get all of your bloodline powers except for the Level 20 ability if you want (be it a little later than a full sorcerer, but that’s better than only getting two). And you'll get full access to your Mystery's Revelations and full Oracle spell casting power.
Only down side is that it will cost you in feats, but at least you'd have 3/4 BAB and 4+INT skill points for your entire character.
And you can still call yourself a sorcerer in story if you wish. Your character's Class mechanically does not have to determine your character's title in game.
Though a combination of spontaneous with a prepared casting class would be easier and, likely, more versatile, you can still make this work.
I would definitely recommend not to go for an equal level until you enter MT, but progress one class further than the other, than sort of "dip" into it. For example, oracle 8/sorcerer 4/ MT 8. Your BAB would be 12, quite acceptable. Goging 4/4/10/? would leave you at 9, maybe 11 if you choose another class.
If you go for the spontaneous route, I would advise you
1. load up on feats that spontaneous classes work well with, i.e. metamagic
2. fill different roles with your divine/arcane roles, i.e. offense with arcane, defense and healing with divine.
3. get the birthmark trait, it fits well with the sorcerer IMO
4. consider the expand arcana feat
5. identify your role in the party before building the character. Melee? Tank? Healer? Ranged charakter? Flanker/aider/...? Controller?
Besides the things already addressed in this and previous posts, what exactly is it that worries you?
Oh btw, have you considered going full witch, mimicking the "curse" and "old power" with the patron, and gaining the abyssal sorcerer background with eldritch heritage?
Ty for all ur ideas. So far the eldritch heritage feat chain with oracle idea sounds the best. I could do witch, however the reason why i was trying to go spontaneous mechanically and for story was because i was going to be a words of power caster. And, as lame as it sounds, having to prepare every word combination as a prepared caster would be just too much book keeping lol. of course even as a spontaneous caster i would have some word combinatons written down for quick reference to everyday use, but i also feel that sorc/oracle have the most to gain from words of power.
One more question. my character was going to be a Kyton spawn Teifling, as an abyssal sorcerrer bloodline that kind of breaks the RP in terms of devil blood with demon blood sorc. But my thought is that:
1. Kytons are not technicaly devils.
2. Kytons in the lore sound more chaotic and "demonish" then calculating and "devilish". preferring brutality over corruption.
i ran this by my GM and he doesnt really care (but i do). what are all ur thoughts?
This is TCG from above. Check out this character profile. He may not be "optimized," but he's pretty badass if I do say so myself.
How did u get teh Arcane discovery truename? u need wizard level 11 u only have wizard 3 (theurge should not add to ur wiz level for anything other than spells).
Are you permitted 3rd party material? Super Genius games has a class called the magister (available on d20pfsrd) which is spontaneous, would allow you to take the abysal bloodline AND mix arcane and divine spell casting. You wouldnt be able to get the oracle mystery without multiclassing, but even if you did you could take just 1 level of oracle, and otherwise full progression in the rest of your casting (including getting divine spells just at one spell level higher then normal).
This is TCG from above. Check out this character profile. He may not be "optimized," but he's pretty badass if I do say so myself.How did u get teh Arcane discovery truename? u need wizard level 11 u only have wizard 3 (theurge should not add to ur wiz level for anything other than spells).
Oh right. That's DM discression. He said that the discovery feats woudl be based off wizard caster level instead of wizard class level. That's obviously not RAW, but much more fun. Ignore that part for the build.
The key to a successful spontaneous MT lies in 3.X material. If your GM allows it, I can show you how I went about making my sorcerer / oracle / mystic theurge.
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You may wish to check into the trait: Magical Knack if you stick with more than one class:
Magical Knack: You were raised, either wholly or in part, by a magical creature, either after it found you abandoned in the woods or because your parents often left you in the care of a magical minion. This constant exposure to magic has made its mysteries easy for you to understand, even when you turn your mind to other devotions and tasks. Pick a class when you gain this trait—your caster level in that class gains a +2 trait bonus as long as this bonus doesn't raise your caster level above your current Hit Dice.
Good Luck
The key to a successful spontaneous MT lies in 3.X material. If your GM allows it, I can show you how I went about making my sorcerer / oracle / mystic theurge.
My Dm is alowing Most of the material in 3.5, including much of the 3rd party material. I would just have to run ur idea by him to make sure its one of the allowable rules.
Some great info in this thread! The main protagonist in the campaign I am running now will end up being a Mystic Theurge. Right now he is a cleric of Gorum and will multi-class into the White Necromancer class from Kobold Quarterly.