Casting a touch spell with a spiked gauntlet.


Rules Questions


Do you get the enhancement bonus on the gauntlet to hit? (damage is set by the spell I know but unsure about hitting since it technically is a melee attack)


Ferio wrote:
Do you get the enhancement bonus on the gauntlet to hit? (damage is set by the spell I know but unsure about hitting since it technically is a melee attack)

No. Assuming a spiked gauntlet is enchanted it's bonus to hit is only when you try to hit with the actual spiked gauntlet. The gauntlet is not interacting with or channeling/affecting the spell in any way.

If you have an ability to channel a spell through a normal melee attack (such as with a Magus) then it would and only for actual touch (not ranged touch) spells and then you would be attacking the targets normal AC, NOT touch AC, to use the bonus attack and damage from your weapon, in this case your spiked gauntlet.

Shadow Lodge

Actually, you can't "hold" the spell in the same hand that has the gauntlet.

"Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge."

HERE

That being the case, there are a few cases where this is possible, like a Spell Storing Weapon. Usually it comes down to if you are wanting to strike with the weapon, and deal damge and the spell, it is not a Touch Attack. If you want to make a Touch attack, the weapon (and it's enhancement bonus) do not count for the attack roll.


If you are a magus, then sure, you can use spellstrike to deliver the touch spell through a spiked gauntlet and get the bonus on the gauntlet to hit as well as the gauntlet damage. This is against regular AC however (no longer a touch attack).

If you don't have the spellstrike ability, then no you can't. It has to be an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or touch attack only.

You could however have improved unarmed strike, and an amulet of mighty fists, and make an unarmed attack with the hit/damage bonus from the amulet. Note: You can only do this if you miss with your free touch attack and hold the charge into the following rounds.


Beckett wrote:
Actually, you can't "hold" the spell in the same hand that has the gauntlet.

The problem with interpreting it that strictly is where to draw the line. No gauntlet means no glove, no ring, no long sleeve, no rain, no fog, no dust in the air, etc.

And which hand? What if you want to deliver the spell with a bite attack? Does that store the 'charge' in your face? What about unarmed strike, does the charge in your foot blow away your boots?

I think it's much more reasonable to say that actively touching something discharges the spell, but whatever equipment you are holding/wearing at the time is exempt. This lets clerics wearing chainmail still heal people without taking off their gauntlets first.

So if you forget and draw a potion, zap. But if a raindrop falls on your hand, it's not discharged.

There's some FAQ requests on this issue here, if anyone is interested.


Grick what it throw a Bunny rabbit into his hand you think it would go off on the defensless woodland creature?

But honestly

How you do it is going to determine AC because it changes
Damage of the fist pinching + the spell
Higher AC and AoO if you didnt take the feat

So I think its an even trade with the horrid BAB that a caster gets anyway.


Reecy wrote:
Grick what it throw a Bunny rabbit into his hand you think it would go off on the defensless woodland creature?

Don't catch it. If I was a bunny, I'd rather hit the ground than take 5d6 electricity damage.

Reecy wrote:

How you do it is going to determine AC because it changes

Damage of the fist pinching + the spell
Higher AC and AoO if you didnt take the feat

A gauntlet does not affect casting spells or Armor Class.

Delivering a touch spell is an armed attack and does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Using a natural weapon or improved unarmed strike to deliver a touch spell doesn't provoke either.

Using an untrained unarmed strike will provoke from the target, even when delivering a touch spell.

I don't really see where you're going with this.

Shadow Lodge

Basically it's the free hand thing. A gauntlet is a weapn that occupies the hand, though you can still hold another weapon in that slot. A Light Shield is still held, sort of. A ring, takes the "finger slot".


Yet another use for the deceptive exchange feat. Assuming they miss you on their free touch, you can then force them to take an item and burn their spell on it.


They are talking about about wanting to hit them with the gauntlet and the spell, technically that is only way it would work IF the GM allowed it to happen.

Which is why it would no longer be only a touch spell because you are discharging it as you punch them in the face. Thus Changing AC from touch to regular and without the feet a free hit, AGAIN ONLY IF THE GM ALLOWED IT... or you are a magus


I would rule no because a spiked gauntlet is an armed attack (light simple weapon). If they wanted to make a punch delivery of their touch spell, I would make it only applicable with a regular gauntlet or unarmed strike, as those are unarmed attacks, and in that case still make them target regular ac (its a strike) instead of touch ac for a touch.
I think this would stay with the rules. I think it should also be no AoO for a touch attack (as per the rules), but yes AoO for a punch-touch unless they have improved unarmed strike.

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