I apologize if this is answered somewhere but searching these terms gives me a lot of information from the original playtests and I don't have access to those so don't know if this changed or not.
Simple question.
Through Spell combat I try to do a full attack and cast a touch spell like Shocking Grasp.
I successfully cast the spell defensively but I miss the normal attack through Spellstrike.
Next round I've got a charged Shocking Grasp spell still active as melee touch spells don't discharge if you miss. Can I use spell combat and try to spellstrike with that charged spell again or would I need to cast another spell discharging a perfectly good spell in order to keep the full attack + spell attack onslaught going?
Basically, is the act of casting required to use Spell Combat and/or Spellstrike or is attacking with a spell sufficient?
The difference being if Spell Combat is fine but Spellstrike is not, I could still make the touch attack in addition to my full attack on subsequent rounds.
sir you have asked and i am going to ask a question right back.. why would you give up the shocking grasp that you have already succeeded casting. instead use spell strike and cast truestrike. bam happy times.
but yet if you have a charged spell and you caer to use another spell combat you will be losing the spell you have now just like a sorcerer cant charge both of his hands with different spells. and also a person cannot maintain two charged spells without a feat or class ability stating he can do so.
"You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates."
So if I cast truestrike I loose the shocking grasp spell.
I realize I could still use a standard action to make a touch attack with this spell but I'd like to keep up the full attack + spell attack flavor of the class and as worded I don't think I could.
I don't want to charge two hands, I just want to see if I can use the one spell until I hit with it while still full attacking. Because as I read it now, I have to actually cast a spell every round even if one is still charged to get the bonus of spell combat.
I think this is a good question, which I have no answer for, but I am quite interested in the answer. I do think that, if you had omitted reference to spellstrike, and just concentrated on spell combat, you might get more answers - It took me a few read-throughs to figure out that you were asking if you could continue to full-attack as if you had two-weapon fighting if you are holding the charge of a touch-attack spell, and not using your off-hand attack for the initial casting of the touch spell.
I hope I am answering your question correctly, but you can use spellstrike with your charged shocking grasp. Spellstrike allows you to deliver the touch spell through a melee attack, and so could be discharged by any successful melee attack with your weapon.
Spellstrike is not tied to spell combat, so you don't need to cast or perform any other action. If you have the touch spell charged, then you can discharge it with a successful melee attack.
You could have the two interact if you have a lingering charge and then initiate spell combat. The first hit with your melee attack would deliver the touch spell, and you could deliver another spell via spellstrike when you cast another spell. Many magi use this trick to optimize first round damage. The catch to this trick is that it is a gamble. If you have a charged spell, initiate spell combat and miss with your attacks, then you will lose the charge when you cast your spell.
Looking at the RAW, you will lose the spell held if you cast another, just as you suspect. However, when using Spell Combat you can opt to cast a spell after taking your melee attacks. So, take all of your attacks during the following round as if you are going to cast a spell at the end (i.e., attack with the -2 penalty). If all of your attacks miss, then you just have to try again the following round or choose to lose the spell by casting another. If you hit and discharge the held spell, you can cast another spell after your melee attacks are resolved.
I may be misunderstanding then.
"Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks."
To me this says Spellstrike is a seperate attack and that the normal full attack swings you take, even if they connect, would not discharge your held touch spell. You specifically get a free melee attack as part of casting the spell.
So the way I understand these abilites
Spell Combat lets you Attack and cast a spell in the same round (this economy of action is what I'm so interested in about the class)
Spellstrike is a new modification to the way touch spells are delivered, you have to swing at full AC but if you hit, you get to do weapon damage and use the weapon crit threat range in addition to the normal spell effect.
So the possibilities are separate for each that I need an answer for.
Spell Combat
A.) You have to actually cast to get Spell Combat's bonus action.
B.) You can either cast or attack with a charged spell to get Spell Combat's Bonus action (ala TWF but with a spell always as your off hand attack)
Spellstrike
A.) You only get the ability to make a weapon attack with a touch spell at the time you cast the spell.
B.) You can continue trying to make weapon attacks with a charged touch spell as long as it stays charged.
this has been brought up before. in fact alot of magus hold a shocking grasp or similar spell when they anticipate combate (it's my tourch).
here is how your secound round would sound and go.
(( two different ways))
Using my undischarged shocking grasp i am going to us my first attack with spell strike and i intend to use spell combate to cast a secound shocking grasp.
[that gives a -2 for the first spell strike (with the held SG) attack hits damage is delt; complete other regular melee attacks if they exist(yes if you miss again you can try spell strike again) once regular attacks are finished (all with the -2) spell combates cast and delevery attack are made, spell strike delevery]
((alternate attacks prob))
since i missed with the -2 last round i am going to forgo spell combate and just use my regular attacks, and i will use spell strike to discharge my shocking grasp if i hit
[that gives you a spell strike at normal bab +(dex or str mod)+enchant for your spell strike SG, then you get the rest of your regular attacks if you have any but no additional cast.]
note: if in the first sequence you fail to hit with the held shocking grasp you may chose to forgo a new cast but you still incure the -2s do to intent statement.
Yeah. I have a Magus in my game, just hit level two, asked me the same question.
Part of spell combat:
1)casts shocking grasp
1A) transfers to sword via Spellstrike and attacks with sword at -2.
2) gets normal melee atack from spell combat at a -2.
I ruled that:
If the spellstrike misses, the weapon is still charged. If the second melee attack hits, shocking grasp goes off as well.
It seems that Von Marshal and Kryzbyn have the right of it. Since you bring up the exact wording of Spellstrike, "Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. ..." That first sentence is key. Spellstrike implicitly lets you deliver the spell through a regular melee attack. The mention of the "free attack" comes later in the description as part of another sentence. Until the spell is discharged through ANY melee attack, or another spell is cast, ANY weapon/unarmed strike/natural attack that the magus possesses can deliver the touch spell. Really, it boils down to economy of actions. Like many posters will say, go into combat with a charged spell. However, the same question will arise once that spell is delivered. Let's say that first round you discharge that shocking grasp AND get another one off. Now it's round 2, you have no spells charged, and want to make the most of your turn. First, declare spell combat, then cast. Attempt to hit with the free attack. If it hits, well and good. If it's a miss, your next regular attack can also deliver the spell. If you have a natural attack, you can even use that after your "regular" attack to deliver the spell (presuming that your "regular" attack also misses. Next round (round 3) Again declare spell combat, but, if you're still holding a spell, make your "regular" attack first. If you STILL haven't hit the opponent, I would recommend forgoing the spell combat at that point, and just making standard action attacks against this opponent, since that -2 to hit from spell combat is hurting your DPR too much. Not to mention, if you're missing 3 times in a row, you've probably got bigger problems than losing a 1st level spell :(
Also, in the special case of Shocking Grasp, don't forget that you get a +3 to hit if your opponent is wearing metal armor or wielding a metal weapon.
Thanks guys, this all makes a lot more sense now!
And very quick responses :)
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