So, here's my rules dilemma of the hour:
Would Witch's Cackle be countered by Bard's Countersong?
This is the problem I'm running into: Bard's Countersong grants everyone within 30' the ability to use result of Bard's Perform roll in place of their saving throws against the sound-based magical attack.
Cackle is Supernatural - thus, magical.
However, Cackle itself has no saving throw - it only extends durations of effects that have savinghtrows (Evil Eye, Agony etc) but aren't sound-based themselves.
My "trying to make sense" reflex is "Countersong creates enough sound interference to mess up Cackle, negating its duration-extending effect" (perhaps with a Perform VS Concetration if I really wanted to rule-codify it).
However, my rule-lawyering bone says simply, Cackle has no saving throw, Countersong specifically doesn't affect effects without saving throws, ergo fugeddaboudit.
Discuss? :D
I am going to say no. Reasons:
1) Cackle does not have a saving throw, it just extends effects that the player has already failed their save on. As you have said.
2)Cackle does not say anywhere that players must hear the cackle in order to have their effects extended. Thus, cackle is not a sound-based effect
When I saw the title of this thread, I applauded your creative application. I must agree with Lab_Rat's interpretation. If a group is using Hero Points, I would probably allow a bard to spend a Hero Point to countersong a witch's cackling (just because the concept is really great).
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I am going to say no. Reasons:
1) Cackle does not have a saving throw, it just extends effects that the player has already failed their save on. As you have said.
2)Cackle does not say anywhere that players must hear the cackle in order to have their effects extended. Thus, cackle is not a sound-based effect
Hmmm. That begs a follow-up question - does a Cackle work if a Witch is Silenced? If it does, does that mean that Witch can Cackle without actually making a sound? The RAW would imply yes, but common sense (at least mine) would howl and gnash teeth at that conclusion :)
I want it to work because it is so cool (both countersong and silence), but RAW it doesn't.
I would allow it.
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Hmmm. That begs a follow-up question - does a Cackle work if a Witch is Silenced? If it does, does that mean that Witch can Cackle without actually making a sound? The RAW would imply yes, but common sense (at least mine) would howl and gnash teeth at that conclusion :)
I'd rule that it's the act of laughing that makes it work. Barring magic, this act makes noise, but if under silence or something like that it works anyway. So you need to cast Silence on yourself if you want to Cackle silently.
I would allow it. I think it's a cool idea that works well with the spirit of the rules even if it's not in the RAW. Since Cackle has no actual saving throw, I would compare the rolled perform check with the save DC of the witch's hexes. If the perform check equals or beats it, I would rule the cackle negated.
Supernatural abilities can not be counterspelled, dispelled and do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Cackle is a supernatural ability. All that is prescribed in the executing of a witch hex is that it takes a standard action. There is no somatic, verbal or material components listed to any hex so rules wise they could be gagged and bound and still use it.
Ok...This is the RAW reading of cackle.
Cackle is a supernatural ability thus it conforms to all the rules for supernatural abilities. This includes No verbal, material, or somatic requirements in order to cast. Thus, the witch can cackle to their hearts content and not be countered (no countersong, counterspell, silence, restraints, etc), unless in an anti-magic field.
My witch snickers in his head when he cackles.
Cackle does not require sound to be emitted nor the targets its effecting to hear it. The cackling can be as loud or soft as the witch desires within her normal vocal limits.
To further show that an enemy need not hear you to be affected is the FAQ version of Scar. That hex let's you affects creatures with your other hexes for out to a mile.
Can a Supernatural ability counter another Supernatural ability?
There is no general answer that is always yes or no. It will depend on what each ability is supposed to do. As an example if there is a supernatural ability that duplicates the silence spell then it should stop cackle. A supernatural ability that block 50 points of fire damage may stop a dragon's breath from hurting you.