If a creature has the Celestial / Infernal template is it an outsider?

[shallowsoul]

I have been reading up on the Celestial/Infernal template and it states that creatures of this type are from the lower planes such as hell or the abyss and I believe they are considered outsiders. Are they or are they not outsiders?

[wraithstrike]

Nope, but I will FAQ it so that the summon monster, and planar binding/calling spells are errata'd to say creatures native to other planes can be summoned.

[Grick]

shallowsoul wrote:

I have been reading up on the Celestial/Infernal template and it states that creatures of this type are from the lower planes such as hell or the abyss and I believe they are considered outsiders. Are they or are they not outsiders?

It depends.

For instance, an outsider [type] has d10 HD but a summoned celestial dolphin has d8.

Is there something specific you're looking for?

[Cheapy]

They are animals with the extraplanar subtype when summoned. You can only have one type at a time.

[MacGurcules]

Even more oddly, they don't necessarily change alignment to match the template, either. They always share your alignment, so you could be a neutral summoner pulling in celestial or infernal creatures as you please and every one of them would be neutral. That's kind of nice for getting through Protection from <Alignment>.

[shallowsoul]

MacGurcules wrote:

Even more oddly, they don't necessarily change alignment to match the template, either. They always share your alignment, so you could be a neutral summoner pulling in celestial or infernal creatures as you please and every one of them would be neutral. That's kind of nice for getting through Protection from <Alignment>.

I don't think matching the alignment of the spell still enables a summoned creature to bypass a Protection from Evil spell.

[MacGurcules]

shallowsoul wrote:

I don't think matching the alignment of the spell still enables a summoned creature to bypass a Protection from Evil spell.

Sure does.

Protection from Evil wrote:

...Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by evil summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Summoned creatures that are not evil are immune to this effect...

[OldManAlexi]

I was going to point out that creatures of the Evil subtype are treated as evil even if their alignment is not evil. However, it seems these templates don't grant subtypes. Odd.

[TheGuyOverThere9888]

shallowsoul wrote:

I have been reading up on the Celestial/Infernal template and it states that creatures of this type are from the lower planes such as hell or the abyss and I believe they are considered outsiders. Are they or are they not outsiders?

Yes, they are considered outsiders. PC's outsiders, in many cases, also keep their home plane as the material plane. So the banish spell wouldn't work even though they are outsiders.

Can't remember where exactly i've seen the above but I know its in several places.

[Reecy]

Guy is correct, there is a slight difference with the templates though... When you look at the type are alignment limiting and Subtype is actually Outsider (native), which basically means during creation of the character, The GM asks ok where were you Born. And that will determine what plane you can not be banished from. You can always house rule an alignment shift for a template though so that is no big deal but where you were born will make a difference.

Here is the Subtype native description: This subtype is applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane. Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.

[wraithstrike]

Where does the infernal/celestial template say they are native outsiders?

[Reecy]

Beastiary 1

Half Celestial Page 169 Half Fiend Page 170
Under Type its says Outsider (Native)

Also this doesnt change hit dice at all You would always use the Racial Hit dice or the Class Hit Dice

[Grick]

Reecy wrote:

Half Celestial Page 169 Half Fiend Page 170

Under Type its says Outsider (Native)

That's a completely different thing.

Half-Fiend is a template, just like Fiendish is a template.

[LazarX]

shallowsoul wrote:

I have been reading up on the Celestial/Infernal template and it states that creatures of this type are from the lower planes such as hell or the abyss and I believe they are considered outsiders. Are they or are they not outsiders?

What exactly is the context of this question? Usually questions like this are asked because there is an unstated corner ruling in mind.

[Reecy]

No actually its not because the questions are related to being an Outsider... I was showing how the rules work...

Example: You are a Solar on the Ceslestial plane of whatever...

You are not an outsider until you step off your plane and into another.

The rules do a complete Flip...So if an anything that was not born on your plane walks onto you can actually banish it back to where ever it is from.

Also these templates are generic Builders to enhance a Character or Creature, which is why Alignment is not listed.

But the material Plane is not your home plane, without story some sort of story to fluff it.

[wraithstrike]

An outsider is a specific creature type with certain traits. Leaving your home plane does not make you an outsider. It gives you the extraplanar subtype.

[LazarX]

Reecy wrote:

No actually its not because the questions are related to being an Outsider... I was showing how the rules work...

Example: You are a Solar on the Ceslestial plane of whatever...

You are not an outsider until you step off your plane and into another.

The rules do a complete Flip...So if an anything that was not born on your plane walks onto you can actually banish it back to where ever it is from.

Also these templates are generic Builders to enhance a Character or Creature, which is why Alignment is not listed.

But the material Plane is not your home plane, without story some sort of story to fluff it.

You're confusing the terms Outsider and ExtraPlanar.

Outsider refers to a being that's native to a plane other or "Outside" the Prime Material.

ExtraPlaner (which is where the banishment and other neat stuff apply) is a quality a being gets when it goes to a plane other than it's own.

The Solar on it's native plane is an Outsider. The PC's who travel to his native plane to beat up on him, acquire the Extra-Planar trait.

[Reecy]

Well I learned something new. thanks Wraith!

[Reecy]

Yeah Laz, I missed that type all together... I had to go back and read it and was like OOOOO...