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I need to know what the CR would be for a 9 member party who are 1st level. I'm trying to go by the APL and whole CR thing, I've really been winging it, but I don't really think that chart is even close to being accurate. Also, the party members are using the 20 point buy.
I mean 9 divided by 9 is 1, plus 1 for their being 9 members and I will make it challenging so that's another plus 1 for a three. So I have 800 XP to spend on a CR 3 encounter that I believe the party will mow through. Not entirely sure I am using this right.
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When you have large parties it is easier to split the party in for the purposes of determining CR.
Figure out what is ok for 1 half of the party, then the other half. Lastly combine them into one big encounter.
PS:Try to divide each party half up so that each side has a fighter type, cleric, and so on.
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I recommend splitting the party into two groups and running them on different days. 9 is just an unwieldly number that often ends with dissatisfied players.
If you do insist on running them both on the same night, then make two encounters, perhaps a group of goblin spear wielders on a lower level and archer/spell casters on a balcony. Half the group deals with a melee threat while the other half deals with archers.
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I recommend splitting the party into two groups and running them on different days. 9 is just an unwieldly number that often ends with dissatisfied players.
If you do insist on running them both on the same night, then make two encounters, perhaps a group of goblin spear wielders on a lower level and archer/spell casters on a balcony. Half the group deals with a melee threat while the other half deals with archers.
Well everyone in our group loves my games so when I propose a game they all want to play. We can only play one day a week so I can't really divide the player's up.
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I recommend splitting the party into two groups and running them on different days. 9 is just an unwieldly number that often ends with dissatisfied players.
If you do insist on running them both on the same night, then make two encounters, perhaps a group of goblin spear wielders on a lower level and archer/spell casters on a balcony. Half the group deals with a melee threat while the other half deals with archers.
This. Though it's worth noting that it doesn't have to be two separate encounters thematically, just be built as two mechanically.
So a CR 3 encounter for this group might be four Hobgoblins (a normal CR 3 encounter) plus their pet Ogre (another CR 3). And the five might totaly work together, you just build them as two separate encounters CR-wise.
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Well everyone in our group loves my games so when I propose a game they all want to play. We can only play one day a week so I can't really divide the player's up.I recommend splitting the party into two groups and running them on different days. 9 is just an unwieldly number that often ends with dissatisfied players.
If you do insist on running them both on the same night, then make two encounters, perhaps a group of goblin spear wielders on a lower level and archer/spell casters on a balcony. Half the group deals with a melee threat while the other half deals with archers.
Why not alternate weeks? Or run one group for two weeks and then the other group for two weeks? 2 games a month is better than a ninth of a game a week, trust me.
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Why not alternate weeks? Or run one group for two weeks and then the other group for two weeks? 2 games a month is better than a ninth of a game a week, trust me.Well everyone in our group loves my games so when I propose a game they all want to play. We can only play one day a week so I can't really divide the player's up.I recommend splitting the party into two groups and running them on different days. 9 is just an unwieldly number that often ends with dissatisfied players.
If you do insist on running them both on the same night, then make two encounters, perhaps a group of goblin spear wielders on a lower level and archer/spell casters on a balcony. Half the group deals with a melee threat while the other half deals with archers.
I'm not going to be in the country much longer so we decided to run every Sunday until I go back home.
I need to know what the CR would be for a 9 member party who are 1st level. I'm trying to go by the APL and whole CR thing, I've really been winging it, but I don't really think that chart is even close to being accurate. Also, the party members are using the 20 point buy.
I mean 9 divided by 9 is 1, plus 1 for their being 9 members and I will make it challenging so that's another plus 1 for a three. So I have 800 XP to spend on a CR 3 encounter that I believe the party will mow through. Not entirely sure I am using this right.
Honestly with 9 players it will always be difficult to pinpoint difficulty with your group. That said if you know the people you are going to be playing with and have someone you can trust, splitting combat into a co-dm situation might not be a bad idea, also is good for side adventures if you have burnout later on down the road. If that is not an option, then the tricking the party into 2 mini-groups as posted above sounds great, so you essentially have the archers that the ranged can pick off coupled the ground units your melee have to deal with so everyone gets to be cool in combat.
On a side note I hope someone in your group makes a cleric cause that is one heck of a lot of CLW casts.
Well nine characters is ALOT for one group, the type of adventures best suited for them is not going to be cramped dungeon crawls or ones requiring stealth and guile, theyre going to attract alot of attention whereever they go.
That being said, for nine players (the most I have run with is six on average), I tend to beef up the opposition (the templates at the back of the Bestiary are handy), better equip them and give them more 'lackeys', generally nuisance opponents that help to give the big guys some flanking bonuses.
Nine Lv 1 characters can handle roughly 2x or 3x the normal number of monsters a four man party handles, dont worry about building an encounter based on the XP system, just throw two to three times the monsters at them, or beef up your existing ones with templates or better gear (doesnt take much, just give some Goblins or Kobolds an Alchemists Fire each, it makes a difference).
Those are just ideas, but you should basically try to increase the # of enemies accordingly, and/or beef them up with some slightly better gear and/or templates, just go with whatever seems to run right and find that groove.
Party level is 2.3.
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I have run 9-10 players for several years and I found the CR chart to be useless for a group that big. The action economy (players actions vs monsters' actions) is skewed towards the players too much to really use the CR calculations, or at least that was my experience.
With that party, chances are they are going to smoke almost all encounters in usually one round, maybe two if they get unlucky with damage rolls. You will have 4-5 spells flying at each creature. If a lot have good initiative rolls, most of your encounters will not get an action in before they die unless you suprise the party. Positive bursts and bardsong are incredibly powerful when they affect 9 characters.
The problem you encounter with a party that large is that to be a challenge, you run the serious risk of killing several players. I had to use a lot of swarms and terrain to eat up action economy to even the playing field without creating a slaughterhouse effect. You can also create opponents that have lots of hps/ac with low damage output to challenge them without a bloodbath, but that gets hard to replicate for too many encounters in a row. That was always the hard part for me... to keep the challenge up without tossing out TPKs and without fudging. Its a lot harder to do with a large group IMO.
Once you get the challenge thing mastered, thats when you realize that two rounds for a 9 man party=1 hour of RL time...doh...
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I'm running a campaign with 8 players (the headaches!) and I've found that the CR system kinda breaks down when handling such large groups, as it might offer encounters that are easily overwhelming for low-level characters or too easy for mid-level ones.
It's better to go with gut feelings, and simply add some more enemies of average CR and toughen up them all.
So if you usually have 4 goblins charging at them, make them 6 (+50%) and give the little psychos max HPs. If you have two wolves on the prowl, make them 3, and again, max out HPs. In case you wound up with too many enemies, just make them attack in two consecutive waves.
When the group has to face one big enemy - nasty one-shot monster - simply max out HPs and give it a situational advantage, or just bolster by one point or two its attack value (but don't mess with damage).
The boss encounters are a bit more tricky to handle, and you'll want to add a couple of low danger critter to serve as meat shields, or power up the single enemy as above - but once again, be very careful with its damage dealing abilities.
One big problem you'll have to face when balancing enounters is action economy: a large group can easily outflank, out-perform and out-damage a single enemy or a small group of adversaries in a given situation, so try to tailor movement opportunities to somehow limit the "swarming" tactics (and also prevent too many ranged attacks).
Finally, be careful with how much treasure you're handing out. A large group has much more resources - as in class options, powers and features - and should rely less on e quipment, especially magic items. Potions and scrolls are fine, but a magic weapon for everyone quickly shifts the balance way too much in the PCs' favor.
Have you ever considered multi GM games?
a few weeks ago the GMs brother was in town and the GM wanted to let his brother in on the game.
instead of the brother rolling up a 1 day character the GM made his brother a secondary GM.
it was great. at times the party could split and no one was idle.
when the group was together the brother played the roll of the monsters with the GM a purely neutral force making judgments, keeping track of initiatives, spell effects and environmental concerns ETC.
it was great.
in your situation I would suggest it.
the group can then split or you can run combat in a faster 2 active players at any one time format.
having said that... if your stuck in a standard 1 GM many players format... use the above mentioned break down method and remember that its going to be almost impossible to run any combat with one BBEGB. anything stong enough to fight 9 PCs will likley kill individual PCs in 1 or two rounds.
^Multi GMs was what I was thinking of too, maybe same world with 2 GMs and 4 players each? One groups actions could effect the others.
In any case, let me think on what could be fun...
Troll could be interesting. It's only (really) hurt with acid or fire (or a bag of water over its head if you think ahead) meaning the alchemist is going to be pivotal. Alas, he's going to have to think about where he's aiming those bombs. The rest of the party, meanwhile, is doing their best not to get splatted. Some people might die, but with nine players it could ease things along. Not that... you know... I like killing people...
Maybe a massive bar fight with some monstrous creatures in the mix? It's a fun way to introduce NPCs and if the bar is big enough (uh... make it big) then there are plenty of chaotic things going on. Leave some goodies out for the PCs to play around with. A bar wench in danger, some guy's purse drops on the floor creating a dog pile, Old Ed lets that crazy dog he always brings off the leash, that middle aged guy in the corner quietly sipping his beer and the regulars all know to stay at least five feet away from him. Just a bunch of different small things for each player to discover during his turn while the others who aren't acting still have something fun to watch.
Maybe a dragon? Could be a younger one but still pretty nasty and a large group of poorly trained adventurers could assume they stand a good chance anyway. Maybe they're the only hope. Give them stuff like super strong booze to boost their will saves VS fear. Maybe make it one of the new kinds so they don't immediately know it's a white dragon and they should use fire. Make those three wizards study for it, maybe toss in a library encounter with mephits causing mayhem.
Well I run a group with I believe 9-10 players and it's deficit to find some encounters for them. While I realize that it's not available to everybody I custom build quite a few enemies in my spare time(I have a lot of time). I try and make a balanced encounter with a nice balance that are in maps geared to splitting the parties do that it's like 2 seperate encounters while only one in essence, while encounters take forever, until we can find a way to split it up I can say this works relatively well, also while these enemies are technically "unbalanced" according to the rule book the encounters end up fairly entertaining and balanced well.
Treat it like a normal 1st level party and double the number of monsters. If the PCs include a bard or someone else who can buff a lot of PCs, add a bit more.
That many characters can get in each others' way, especially in a dungeon. If the fight happens in a 5' corridor, half the PCs will be sitting around doing nothing until the front line goes down or runs out of spells. Conversely, on open ground they can swarm anything, causing lots of flanking and AoOs, but the archers will still suffer (esp at 1st level with no Precise Shot).
Don't just use a single high-CR monster, as it'll just flatten single characters until someone gets lucky.
I'd recommend......
Throwing Tuckers Kobolds at them.
But then again, I'm kind of a jerk.
You will have to go old school and mob them.
Honestly Wraithstrike's suggestion in post #2 is as good as it gets, rules wise.
First level characters are kinda fragile. If you send CR 5 or 6 single monsters against them you will kill someone in a single shot. A single spellcaster with a fireball will toast a big group of clvl1s. So mobs of mooks will be your friends.
Big groups are hard to plan for because the swingy things in an encounter are even swingier. I've seen small groups that could dismantle tough encounters, the right player/class mix will shoot any math based table in the foot with 8+ characters.
I'd look at terrain as a major component of encounter design. Above someone pointed to the traditional 5' corridor, a single Orc with a tower shield and a repeating xbow could make for a difficult enough encounter that won't tie up an hour of gametime. That's your real enemy, encounters that drag out for 70 minutes.