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I have a PFS character, Fizzabang the Fabulous, a gnome Rogue 2/ Alchemsit (chirgeion) 7, who will be retiring if i get him to level 12.....(Rogue 2/ Alchemist 10).
I was thinking Rahadoum might be an interesting place to retire the character. He could then peddle his extracts, of "Cure spells" and Remove disease, blindness, deafness, restoration, and breath of life etc. I have also taken the discoveries Infusion, spontaneous healing, and healing touch.
Without any legal Divine healing available, how much do you think he could charge for his healing services?
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Probably an escalating amount more than the normal price based on spell level. Bards, Witches, and other people with CLW aren't exactly uncommon...but Restoration or Breath of Life? Those are some hefty spells when you don't have much divine spellcasting available, and can thus demand increasingly large prices.
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I still fail to see why everyone thinks Rahadoum doesn't have access to any of those divine spells. The prohibition is against worshipping Gods not divine magic.
I've always assumed the Pure Legions where BRIMMING with Inquisitors dedicated to the ideal of the Laws of Man. Not all of them will bother taking the healing domain but at least a couple will to support their fellows better.
My next Inquisitor for PFS will be coming from Rahadoum and I'm expecting a few surprised looks when he shows up.
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I tried to argue your angle on these boards and was heavily set upon on for trying to portray them in a positive light. The short summary is that any kind of divine magic is banned whether it comes from gods or not. Diabilism, duidic faith, even the Prophecies of Kalistrade are all equally banned and persecuted. Per James Jacobs, Rahadoum goes for an ignorant, mustached villian form of atheism, and any suggestions that they are trying to pursue non-divine enlightenment should be crushed.
This is true, and apparently how Rahadoum works. But in fairness, this is hardly the only form of Atheism portrayed in Golarion (hell, Ezren's a NG super-genius and philosophical atheist).
So yeah, Rahadoum is indeed the villainous form of atheism in many ways...but not as much as Cheliax or Nidal are villainous forms of religion.
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I still fail to see why everyone thinks Rahadoum doesn't have access to any of those divine spells. The prohibition is against worshipping Gods not divine magic.
Use of divine magic requires divine influence, which kind of implies a divine connection. Any doubt about divine magic's prohibition in Rahadoum, was put to rest by Death's Heretic
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Thank you for your posts....So I was wondering, since in PFS, my alchemist cant have the brew potion feat, my character will probably be selling his extracts. I would guess he could sell the extracts for the same price a spell caster would sell a spell for. (caster level x Spell level x 10 )
So, if my character survives to 12 level, he would be a 2nd level Rogue/ 10 level Alchemist with the Chirgeon archtype. That would mean he could charge 100 gp for a cure light wounds extract, 200 gp for a Delay Poison extract, 300 gp for a Remove Disease Extract, and 400 gp for a Neutralize poision extract.
Even though breath of life is a 4th level extract for an Alchemist Chirgeon, i think he could easily get away with charging ( 10 lvl Alchemsit x 5th level x 10= 500 gp ) 500 gp for a Breath of life Extract.
I am assuming those are the market prices as per the Core Rule Book, and I would expect those are market prices my character he could charge in say Magnimar, Korvosa, Egoran, Almas, Absalom, Oppara, or Sophis...
But I wonder what price he could charge in the capitol of Rahadoum Azir? could he charge +25% market value +50%? what do you think?
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Hm...well, after reading Rahadoum's entry, and the above posts, I'd say +50%, since the only other classes that could heal without divine influence is the bard (witches use some unknown patron, which could or could not be a deity or some sort of religious affiliate), so I'd say ramp up the price. After all, that's how business works. The more demand there is for an item...the more expensive you make it if you want to make a profit...
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There are actual ways to discern the diference between Arcane and Divine magic, so a Witch can probably get away with it...though it would be somewhat risky. Plus there are all the other Alchemists. It's not like he'll be the only one in Rahadoum.
That said, I suspect that +50% is probably about right...but I'd actually scale that down on low-level stuff and up on higher level stuff since the higher level the rarer, and thus the greater a price increase you can get away with.
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True, but alchemists aren't exactly a common sight, particularly ones that specialize in healing (Mr. Jacobs himself expressed the fact that archetypes defy the norm, and are therefore fairly rare in his own Q & A thread). As for witches, the whole "unknown patron" thing, arcane magic or not, would probably put the Pure Legion all in a frizzy. Some dude staring at a magic animal and getting magic from them? That looks like worship to me. Get her!...she's a witch...can we burn her? Etc. Etc.
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Well, you don't need an Archetype to heal people, just Brew Potion or the Infusion Discovery (which is likely to be common to non-combat Alchemists).
And I agree that a known Witch comes in for some trouble, but a Witch and a Wizard with a Familiar don't actually look that different to the casual observer, and a provably Arcane spellcaster offering healing might get a little benefit of the doubt (inasmuch as they'd get a full investigation, not summary execution, anyway).
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Thanks the +50% sounds like a good rule of thumb.
I know its really a moot point, since the only way in PFS that my character can "earn" money is through a day job roll, and the money he earns through adventuring that he gets on a chronicle sheet. But after spending the prestige to "buy a shop" it would be fun to imagine what he would be doing for business.
I would have to agree, i think the pure legion would be quite interested in that little furry animal companion....familiar...you have what? made a pact with an otherworldy power? yep that sounds like something divine..... and that pack sounds like worship...
burn the witch.
I think the pure legion are zelots.....atheistic zelots.
Hmm I guess thats a bit of an oxymoron.
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Well, atheism is a type of theological belief, so zealotry on its behalf...ah, my brain...
On that subject, Rahadoum really is a very interesting place, campaign wise. Seems like a really short-sighted people to me. I mean, in our world, their decision to "ban religion because its too much trouble" is feasible since there is no definitive proof of any particular God or afterlife per se. But on Golarion, it's pretty much common knowledge that Pharasma DOES in fact judge your actions when you die, and that gods have legitamate power. Flat out denying them seems about as stupid as walking up to a demon, and saying "you can't hurt me if i don't believe in you! Ha-ha! Oh wait, that's a very pointy sword you have there...huh...good thing i don't believe in- OH GOD THE PAIN!" In my opinion, both beliefs are equally valid...in other words, not valid at all...
I think Rahadoum is more anti-theist than atheist, if that makes sense.
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Rahadoum is less 'anti-theist' and more 'anti-divine spellcasting.'
A Ranger, Druid, Adept, Oracle, etc. doesn't have to have a god *at all* and yet remains persona non grata in Rahadoum.
A Witch's Patron can be a god (as verified in the Iconic Witch's backstory, as her Patron is Desna), meaning that at least some of her spells are being granted directly from a god, but since it's 'arcane,' the Rahadoumi don't care at all.
Per Gods & Magic, Bards can be priests of Calistria, Cayden Cailean, etc., Monks can be priests of Irori, Wizards and Sorcerers can be priests of Nethys or Sivanah, etc. but since their spells (well, except for the monks, who usually won't have any) don't detect as divine, they can pursue their individual faiths just fine in Rahadoum, so long as they don't preach on streetcorners or wave holy symbols around.
It's purely a mechanical game-rules distinction, of whether you cast 'arcane' or 'divine' spells, and has nothing at all to do with whether or not you worship a god. I was energetically refuted for opining otherwise, and the notion that 'divine' spellcasting didn't necessarily have anything to do with *divinities,* didn't fly, even though the game is crawling with similar examples of the same word being used to define different things (like class 'level,' character 'level' and spell 'level,' or the 'evil' creature subtype, the 'evil' spell descriptor and the 'evil' alignment).
An atheist Adept who is fanatically devoted to the principles of the Kingdom of Man will burn at the stake just as fast as a cleric of Sarenrae.
The culture has also been corrected as not *really* Lawful Neutral, like in the books, but more like Lawful Evil.
They're not just 'atheists,' but actually mean and kind of dumb, although they do have a non-spellcasting based technique that allows any Rahadoumi to tell if a spell being cast is divine or arcane (which requires the use of the 3rd level arcane sight spell for people who don't have special Rahadoumi powers).
I like the representation in Death's Heretic more. Mean and kinda dumb isn't at all the picture being represented - in fact they acknowledge the existence of gods just fine. It is that they are filled with pride for their own achievement and won't allow meddling of some "divine" entity in their lives.
Lawful neutral is a perfectly good way to describe them.
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Mean and kinda dumb isn't at all the picture being represented
They don't care about gods worshippers who *don't* cast divine spells, but will kill atheists who can cast divine spells (and *most* divine spellcasting classes are not required to have *any* connection to 'the divine' at all).
Sounds mean and dumb to me.
James Jacobs has said himself that they are more lawful evil, than lawful neutral.
- in fact they acknowledge the existence of gods just fine.
Which, I don't believe, was ever disputed. Indeed, Ross kind of hammered that home, by labelling them more accurately as 'anti-theist' than atheist.
They know gods (or powerful outsiders that call themselves such) exist, they just don't think that men should bend knee to them.
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A Witch's Patron can be a god (as verified in the Iconic Witch's backstory, as her Patron is Desna), meaning that at least some of her spells are being granted directly from a god, but since it's 'arcane,' the Rahadoumi don't care at all.
I strongly disagree. If Feiya were to walk around Rahadoum talking about her devotion to Desna and recieving powers from her (which isn't quite true, but is close) she'd be arrested in a heartbeat, and possibly killed...Rahadoum doesn't put up with that kind of thing.
Per Gods & Magic, Bards can be priests of Calistria, Cayden Cailean, etc., Monks can be priests of Irori, Wizards and Sorcerers can be priests of Nethys or Sivanah, etc. but since their spells (well, except for the monks, who usually won't have any) don't detect as divine, they can pursue their individual faiths just fine in Rahadoum, so long as they don't preach on streetcorners or wave holy symbols around.
Sure, and so can a fanatical Rogue or Fighter. As long as they don't advertise, anyone can be a worshipper of a God in Rahadoum.
They just have ways to prove you're a worshipper of something if you're a Divine Spellcaster...which puts Divine spellcasters in a bit more trouble than others.
It's purely a mechanical game-rules distinction, of whether you cast 'arcane' or 'divine' spells, and has nothing at all to do with whether or not you worship a god. I was energetically refuted for opining otherwise, and the notion that 'divine' spellcasting didn't necessarily have anything to do with *divinities,* didn't fly, even though the game is crawling with similar examples of the same word being used to define different things (like class 'level,' character 'level' and spell 'level,' or the 'evil' creature subtype, the 'evil' spell descriptor and the 'evil' alignment).
Well, Divine vs. Arcane isn't just a metagame distinction, it's an in-game-world one too. And specifically one that can be detected and measured. It seems horribly plausible to me that Rahadoum started out merely banning Clerics, and using the ability to tell what kind of magic someone was using to help find them, but gradualy shifted to anyone and everyone who used Divine to power their magics because 'It's the only way to be sure. They're probably worshiping some God in secret anyway, even if they say they're not.' That is how witch hunts tend to work after all.
An atheist Adept who is fanatically devoted to the principles of the Kingdom of Man will burn at the stake just as fast as a cleric of Sarenrae.
I'm skeptical of the existence of the first of those. There's little evidence that a philosophy can empower Adepts. Oracles, on the other hand, are very possible. And would indeed be burned, just as devout, faithful, Catholics were burned in the Inquisition. I mean, that's how this kind of blanket condemnation inevitably goes.
The culture has also been corrected as not *really* Lawful Neutral, like in the books, but more like Lawful Evil.
Depending on point of view anyway, yeah a bit.
They're not just 'atheists,' but actually mean and kind of dumb, although they do have a non-spellcasting based technique that allows any Rahadoumi to tell if a spell being cast is divine or arcane (which requires the use of the 3rd level arcane sight spell for people who don't have special Rahadoumi powers).
In fairness, I've never seen it indicated anywhere that random people of Rahadoum can tell, just investigators, who presumably use magic (like Arcane Sight) to tell. I mean, it's not like 3rd level spellcasting is exactly rare, since every village has someone who can do it (per the Settlement rules, which seem to reflect Golarion pretty well). So that's what, 1 in 60 or 80 people? More than 1% anyway.