Are there any bindings I can use to tie creatures with extraordinary strength, assuming I can grapple them to the ground? The strongest rope in equipment is spider silk, but it can be burst with a DC 25. Any ideas?
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Are there any bindings I can use to tie creatures with extraordinary strength, assuming I can grapple them to the ground? The strongest rope in equipment is spider silk, but it can be burst with a DC 25. Any ideas?
Well, logically, chains. Adamantine chains for strong enough creatures. I'm not finding rules for that, though. Masterwork manacles do exist and are DC 28 to break, though. So Str 24 or less critters can be bound by those fairly reliably.
I am talking creatures in the 30~40 Strength range :P. Guess I could see if I can find anything on chain stats, thanks for the suggestion.
Though honestly, I kind of feel like this concept is covered in tying up mechanics of the grapple rules. Rather than make you bother with how many turns of rope you use and calculating the DC, they just simulate how thoroughly you tied them up through the CMB mechanics.
This would make me happy. Thank you for this interpretation, I will inform my GM.
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The best I came up with was from Adventerer's Armory.
Mithral Manacles: These bindings are more
difficult to break than standard bindings and are
particularly useful against lycanthropes. They have
hardness 15, 30 hit points, and a break DC of 30.
I was sure I saw Adamantine manacles somewhere, but can't find them now.
And as MacGurcules mentioned, the grapple rules have how you tie someone up. Have them pinned (or grappled with -10 penalty) and succeed at another grapple check. Then they're tied up with a dc of 20 + your cmb. If their cmb < your cmb they can't escape even with a nat 20.
Mythic thread resurrection.
Ropes, chains, and manacles can be burst with a str check. The DC following the pin only applies to an attempt to escape the binds, not burst them, as far as I'm aware.
What are the bindings with the highest strength check DCs?
I assume special materials and/or magic should have an impact, they do impact hardness and HP after all.
Bloodvine rope has DC 30 to burst with a Str check, I don't think there's anything higher.
Mithral Manacles are also DC:30.
I don't think there are stats for it, but Adamantine Manacles probably should be higher.
Adamantine chain also has a DC 30 to burst it. I didn't write the DCs, I'm just reporting them.
Iron rope turns into an iron bar as the name suggests. No burst DC is given, though bending iron bars is a DC 24 Str check.
I mean, it may not be RAW, but I'd give Adamantine Manacles at least a DC:32, maybe even 35.
I guess Strength checks are pretty hard to pass unless you really specifically build for it (Barbarian with Strength surge and such). DC:25 - let alone DC:30 - is outside the realms of most characters, even at high levels.
Outside the reach of most PCs, but not monsters. Ridiculous str score are possible at high CRs and ideally I want my grappling bloodrager to be able to tie up as many foes as possible. Getting a huge CMB loses much appeal if the tied creature can just pass an easy str check.
Thanks for those items.
Multiple immovable rods positioned around limbs of the creature, making it completely immobile.
There's a str check for immovable rods, which is 29 iirc. Unless the GM is very lenient one is not likely to be able to tie someone up with them on a grapple check, stacking them gets expensive real fast, and the target could just press on their button to unlock them.
Bloodvine rope has a DC of 30, is rope, and costs a mere 200gp. That's definately what I'll go with unless someone finds something with a higher DC.
Adamantine chain also has a DC 30 to burst it. I didn't write the DCs, I'm just reporting them.
Iron rope turns into an iron bar as the name suggests. No burst DC is given, though bending iron bars is a DC 24 Str check.
Well, if you Enlarge yourself, your gear grows with you. Your 10' of bike chain becomes 20' of anchor chain.
I don't know what rules put this in game terms, but presumably, if you cast Enlarge or Giant Form on yourself, your similarly enlarged chain increases it's Burst DC, too. It would shrink again if you let go, meaning you would then have to maintain the grapple as your allies sodomize the Ancient Black Dragon you just tied up, but that's okay.
So if you tie someone up and the chains then shrink, are you now constricting him?
I think my GM would call foul if I tried to constrict an enemy with disenlarged chains haha.
With the rules as they are, it seems unlikely that we'll get to recreate those scenes where a group of monster hunters toss a bunch of weighed ropes or lariats across their foe, eventually pinning it to the ground.
On the other side, I don't think being able to automatically neutralize a huge, powerful monster in a round or two is a great idea, from a design perspective.
And from a strategic angle, forcing a dragon to spend it's turn on a strength check instead of any number of horribly awesome things would be a great use of my turn. Effectively locking the dragon out of combat at the cost of my own actions and some lengths of rope? Yes please.
Eh, you could. It's in the same vein as the quest for the enchanted sword, but...there's something decidedly less dignified about defeat by hogtying versus that by more typical combat. And if any monster deserves to be handled with dignity, it's the giant, super strong, super intelligent, fire-breathing icon of fantasy.
Eh, you could. It's in the same vein as the quest for the enchanted sword, but...there's something decidedly less dignified about defeat by hogtying versus that by more typical combat. And if any monster deserves to be handled with dignity, it's the giant, super strong, super intelligent, fire-breathing icon of fantasy.
I dunno, a number of stories involve not killing but capturing/tying up the villain/monster. Dragons, the Joker, etc.
Finding the mythic chains to bind the tarrasque sounds cool to me. Probably even better with a dragon as the tarrasque doesn't look very fun to fight, too many immunuties.
I dunno, a number of stories involve not killing but capturing/tying up the villain/monster.
Absolutely. And that would be a very different situation than a character who's answer to every question is "grab it and tie it up so my friends can beat it to death". Which, if you're rocking a CMB high enough to single-handedly threaten something with a CMD 50+, I imagine is exactly the case.
But searching for some enchanted chains to contain a titanic, world-ending monster and lull it back to sleep deep beneath the earth? Yes, please.
Well the point of tying it up is that you don't need allies to clubber it, you can do it with impunity yourself. Arguably, if you can pin the enemy, you don't even need to tie it up. The ropes are a bonus, just in case.
Arguably, for the scenario of a bunch of people throwing ropes, each can be said to be using aid another to grant a +2 bonus. I'm pretty sure it's explicitly in the grapple rules that people can do this. Suddenly, it doesn't take a whole lot of followers to aid McMuscle to tie down the tarrasque.
Getting followers close enough to the tarrasque or an older dragon to throw ropes over it sounds tricky. A recipe for dead followers. Multiple attackers using aid another is in the grapple rules though, you're right.
The -1 penalty for dead followers doesn't stack. Better sacrifice those. ;) Besides, the bonus is the same +2 regardless of how high the aidant's CMB is.
Well the point of tying it up is that you don't need allies to clubber it, you can do it with impunity yourself. Arguably, if you can pin the enemy, you don't even need to tie it up. The ropes are a bonus, just in case.
Sure. My point was that cranking your grapple so high that reliably holding down even insanely strong foes becomes assured turns even the most epic, fantastical battles into a single player's turn, and thus it becomes lackluster and maybe even comical.
Granted, I have no idea how successful such a character would be, and the odds seem likely that, if you can reliably tie up a dragon, then that dragon was not an especially significant challenge for other members of your party, either.My concern was more for some weird, hypothetical outlier-build where you're a lvl14 barbarian with a CMB of +68, somehow. But that's less about grappling specifically and more about hopelessly lopsided characters that trivialize large swathes of the game.
Hah maybe not reliably. Not trying to cheese things out just seeing if it's possible to make a viable build. The relatively low burst DC on normal ropes seemed like a weakest link.
Making a lvl 10 bloodrager. Right now my CMB to grapple would be 10 BAB + 10 str + 1 size + 4 greater grapple. +25. Given the monsters I'd expect to fight, it seems reasonnable. Not too high as to shut everything down, not too low as to be useless. I think it will just weaken from here on though. Aside from increasing my BAB from levels and my str a bit there's not much more to buff my CMD. As a non human barb who doesn't want to be a one trick pony, stuff like weapon focus (grapple) doesn't feel worthwhile.
I'd need a lot of followers to reliably grapple the tarrasque. ;)