If I have six claw attacks and I hit with four of them, do I apply Rend damage once or twice?
If I have six claw attacks and I hit with four of them, do I apply Rend damage once or twice?
Rend (Ex) If it hits with two or more natural attacks in 1 round, a creature with the rend special attack can cause tremendous damage by latching onto the opponent's body and tearing flesh. This attack deals an additional amount of damage, but no more than once per round. The type of attacks that must hit and the additional damage are included in the creature's description. The additional damage is usually equal to the damage caused by one of the attacks plus 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus.
If I have six claw attacks and I hit with four of them, do I apply Rend damage once or twice?Rend (Ex) If it hits with two or more natural attacks in 1 round, a creature with the rend special attack can cause tremendous damage by latching onto the opponent's body and tearing flesh. This attack deals an additional amount of damage, but no more than once per round. The type of attacks that must hit and the additional damage are included in the creature's description. The additional damage is usually equal to the damage caused by one of the attacks plus 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus.
You'd really think that by now I wouldn't miss stuff like that.
Thanks.
*feels dumb*
Well, as written in the rend entry, it can just as easily be read to be once per round per opponent you hit w/ 2+ natural attacks, since the "attack" in question is in reference to hitting a singular opponent.
In 3E I allowed rend to work once per round per creature, made sense if you wanted to divide up your attacks on multiple foes.
RAW in PF it's probably once per round total, though.
If you are an Eidolon, you use what the Evolution says, not what the Universal monster rules say.
If I have six claw attacks and I hit with four of them, do I apply Rend damage once or twice?
no, unless you are an eidolon with the Rend Evolution. THen it's yes.
If you are an Eidolon, you use what the Evolution says, not what the Universal monster rules say.
Is that an oversight in the RAW? Or did they really mean to give the eidolon that ability? (smacks lips and thinks about next gaming session...)
My link above addresses that. Eidolon evolutions follow the eidolon rules, not the UMR. You still only get rend once a turn though, due to #3.
Cheapy is correct on this. The main difference between Monster manual abilities and Eidolon abilities is that the Eidolon abilities tend to be poorly worded and lesser in power.
Rend is a good example.
Pounce is another.
In the Monster Manual the pounce ability allows you to also deliver your rake attacks to your target, whereas the Eidolon pounce ability has no mention of rake (So you don't get it.)
If you are an Eidolon, you use what the Evolution says, not what the Universal monster rules say.
Why do you say that? Should they not all work the same?
EDIT: Mogart, do you or Cheapy have developer input that supports this? If not, then I don't follow that line of thought. It makes sense that they wouldn't include all the same bits as in the UMR; they don't have to since it's already spelled out in detail IN the UMR!
If you are an Eidolon, you use what the Evolution says, not what the Universal monster rules say.Why do you say that? Should they not all work the same?
Because of the link I posted above where jason bulmahn says to use the eidolon's rules.
Because of the link I posted above where jason bulmahn says to use the eidolon's rules.If you are an Eidolon, you use what the Evolution says, not what the Universal monster rules say.Why do you say that? Should they not all work the same?
1) I don't think Jason understood the full impact behind what he was saying.
2) I don't think it really applies here as that statement was made in the context of the now defunct playtest data.
And what are some examples where he didn't fully understand the impact of the statement? I don't recall any off the top of my head, but I know quite a few where the eidolon's rules are explicitly different from the UMR rules.
If the text hasn't changed since the beta, comments and clarifications from it still hold.
Jason Bulmahn was the original designer of this class, so if you can find anything that has him saying to use the UMR even when the eidolon's evolution uses different rules, I'd love to see it.
Because of the link I posted above where jason bulmahn says to use the eidolon's rules.If you are an Eidolon, you use what the Evolution says, not what the Universal monster rules say.Why do you say that? Should they not all work the same?1) I don't think Jason understood the full impact behind what he was saying.
2) I don't think it really applies here as that statement was made in the context of the now defunct playtest data.
The Lead Designer was fairly clear on his points regarding rend and pounce. You use the Eidolon rule set as written.
What this amounts to is that the Eidolon abilities are not as good as the Beastiary abilities with the same name.
Because of the link I posted above where jason bulmahn says to use the eidolon's rules.If you are an Eidolon, you use what the Evolution says, not what the Universal monster rules say.Why do you say that? Should they not all work the same?1) I don't think Jason understood the full impact behind what he was saying.
2) I don't think it really applies here as that statement was made in the context of the now defunct playtest data.
The Lead Designer was fairly clear on his points regarding rend and pounce. You use the Eidolon rule set as written.
What this amounts to is that the Eidolon abilities are not as good as the Beastiary abilities with the same name.
huh, interesting
Ok then here it is without having to go to the citation.
Jason Bulmahn (Lead Designer) is asked:
2) Rake evolution - do the rake attacks activate when combined with a pounce, similar to the bestiary description of rake, or is the eidolon version limited to only when grappling?
His reply:
2. The eidolon version follows the eidolon rules.
Eidolon Pounce:
Pounce (Ex)
An eidolon gains quick reflexes, allowing it to make a full attack after a charge. This evolution is only available to eidolons of the quadruped base form. Source: Advanced Player's Guide.
Monster Rules Pounce:
Pounce (Ex)
When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).
Format: pounce; Location: Special Attacks.
Another way of looking at it is that if an Animal Companion and an Eidolon pounce, the Animal Companion will get his rake attacks whereas the Eidolon will not, because they use two different rule sets for pounce.