Hello all. Originally I was going to play a witch in an upcoming pathfinder game. However, after talking to my DM last night he told me that we have a "Tank/Magus", a Devine Caster, an Arcane Caster, and possibly another Tank and another Mage (if they play).
So, he suggested that I try to help balance the party out. Not knowing anything else about how the others intend to play their characters, I assumed that another caster in the form of a Witch would probably be overkill in the casting department.
We're starting at level one, and I had a few ideas for character concepts I might want to play to possibly balance the team a bit.
Quick bit about the world/culture. Elves are viewed as near gods and thus treated like royalty at most times but are dwindling in numbers. Humans and half elves are very common. Our characters don't know much of anything about the outside world (which I would guess that is where we're going.)
So without further ado, here are my current character concepts.
Human Rogue Swashbuckler/Scout using the Dervish Dance (when I can get it) moving into Shadow Dancer. This option provides skills and battle support but is the more serious character flavor wise.
Flavor: Born full blooded human his mother died at birth. His father married an elf and they had another baby, which is more beloved than the character (at least in his mind). He is determined to prove that the elves aren't any better than humans by using their own sword fighting style against them every chance he gets. [The DM has made the dervish fighting style into a sword style of elite elf soldiers.
Human Drunken Qinggong Master of Many Styles. This option could be very useful in battle as well as sense motives and perception skills and would probably be more fun to play flavor wise. Looking at either the crane, panther, snake or monkey styles to begin with. Boar looks awesome too.
Flavor: A wandering cheerful drunken martial artist who fights for the fun of it. Thing is, he took a vow of silence (Not sure about this part) and when attempting to "tell" somebody something he tends to draw little pictures since most can't read his handwriting.
Human Improvised Weapon Fighter. I believe this to be a very versatile battle supporter, but due to being a fighter not very skilled at anything. This may lead to him being turned into a monk as well.
Flavor: A very large yet quiet, man he once attempted to join the army yet always ended up throwing his sword at the enemy and using anything lying around as another weapon. The army looking down on this asked him to leave. He now wanders as a mercenary for hire yet is never seen carrying a sword. A frying pan or tree trunk maybe, but never a sword, it brings him bad memories.
Human Sorcerer Charmer/Face: I know there are a lot of casters but I am unsure if there will be anyone to talk well for the team. Used as a party face and possibly buffer. Another fun possibility.
Flavor: Going from tavern to tavern, lady to lady he is a very smooth talker. When his words fail to get him what he is looking for he tends to use magic to further his goals. If allowed, he will talk you out of your clothes, and he'd do that just for fun.
So there are my current ideas. If you have any advice as to which one would be of the most help or balance a party of mainly casters I'd like to hear them. Also if you have some ideas of your own that you're willing to share, that would be great to. Thanks.
Out of all of yours, I myself would pick the "Human Drunken Qinggong Master of Many Styles" with the crane. If it was me doing it, I would pick something with a druid. My character is a druid and she's never died(sort of). Animal companions are really helpful, mine can do 5 moves in one turn. He used to be my animal companion(I turned him into a magical beast so now he's just my ally). The spells are great too. For example:
Baleful polymorph, "Turn one enemy to a harmless animal".
Cure critical wounds, "4d8+1/level".
Reincarnate, "Bring back a dead subject into a different body(I had some fun with this. My friend was stupid and got eaten by a Sea Serpent, I turned him into a faerie)".
Well whatever you pick, have fun and good luck:)
That is true, I could do something like a pack lord type of character. Animals could battle support and offer some magical options. Well... there is option #5 for everyone. :)
I realize it isn't on your list, but my personal bias keeps yelling at me to throw it out there anyway. A ranger would make a decent choice for balancing the party, both in and out of combat. You can start combat at range, move in when the fight gets physical, and use your spells for various utility purposes that the other casters have run out of slots for. Not to mention, they have a good selection of skills that should prove useful and they're the best trackers in the game.
On to your actual list, Human Drunken Qinggong Master of Many Styles would make for an interesting choice, but in terms of most fleshed out, the Human Rogue Swashbuckler/Scout seems to be what you've put the most thought into.
I will look into Rangers, but for some reason I've never felt much of a connection with them.
The reason for the Rogue feeling more fleshed out is exactly that, I had him and the witch prepared depending on the party choices. The only reason I don't go with him right away, is because I'm not sure I can have enough fun with him role-play wise due to the brooding story I've tacked onto him.
I know I could just not make him the brooding type, but I do like him wanting to show up the "near gods" with their own sword style.
With a little bit of elbow grease, I'm sure I could flesh out the monk as much as, if not more than the rogue.
So, currently that's. 2 votes monk, 1 vote ranger, 1 vote druid.
Thanks for all the suggestions. Please keep them coming.
Out of your own ideas, I would suggest the monk. It's more distinct from the others and could stand out more.
However, I second the ranger idea above. You might consider replacing the rogue character with the ranger. Depending on how you build it, it could be a drop-in replacement for the rogue. The full BAB will come in handily.
Also, I would suggest bard. Inspire courage will boost the martial prowess of the other medium BAB classes, and you can play him as an archer, a melee combatant, a support caster, a backup healer...
Alchemist might also be interesting since it's even more distinct from the other PCs and very versatile as well :-)
Well, I just got a message and apparently he's bumped our starting level to 2. All the ideas on here benefit greatly from that.
I could see the ranger being a good character. Though I tend to lean towards archery when I think of a ranger. For me the rogue will work awesomely for a dervish just because I could use his 2nd level rogue talent for combat trick, nabbing dervish dance. Also it comes with performance built in.
I thought about a bard and they do make interesting characters, but I sort of feel like we already have so many casters that a bard might still get lost in the fray. Alchemist, while somewhat of a caster does offer really interesting choices.
Thanks again. I am leaning towards the monk, but because it tries to make use of AOOs what happens if the enemies just stops making AOOs? Should I just count myself lucky then?
Alright everyone, I think I'm either going to go with my monk or my rogue. I might start a different thread for opinions on my build, unless it would be preferable to do it on this thread.
Thanks again for helping me narrow the choices.
a suggestion on makng the rogue less broody.
Instead of resenting his half brother, they could have been on friendlier terms, and learned the elven fighting style from the step mother or sibling.
Also you could go with the half elf sibling being the one whos mother died, and your rogues character could simply be trying to prove to his old sibling that he is just as good of a fighter
Alternatively, taking the friends with half-brother a step further. Have him be the one who taught you, as J3C suggested, but he gets caught and ostracized by the elves for teaching their ways to a non-elf.
So, you set out to prove that your half-brother was not mistaken when he chose to train you. Thus, you still have the redemption-esque drive, but a lot of the broodiness is gone because you're doing it for your brother and not yourself.
Human Rogue Swashbuckler/Scout using the Dervish Dance (when I can get it) moving into Shadow Dancer. This option provides skills and battle support but is the more serious character flavor wise.
This party really needs a skillbased PC, esp someone who can do traps well. Do the rogue, but I assume you mean the Scout & Swashbuckler archetypes, right? I don’t think you should give up Trapfinding. And, Shadowdancer does not (under the current RAW) allow Sneak Attack while steathing. It’s not a good option.
Wow, thanks everybody for the input.
Some excellent suggestions for the rogues backstory. Also, I was indeed meaning the archetypes, I guess I'll have to check the Shadow Dancer again if what you say is the case.
However, I was actually thinking about going to the monk. Granted, they don't get disable device, but since the DM is allowing traits, I was looking at the Wisdom in the Flesh and choose disable device as a skill. While it's true I won't have Trapfinding which can be very useful, disable device would then be a class skill and use my Wis modifier for the check.
The main reason I will probably go with the monk though, is because I had just late yesterday asked my DM if he'd be willing to design one string of style feats based around Drunken Boxing. I know there is an archetype for it, but I felt that it didn't exactly handle the mechanics of really fighting drunk and luckily my DM agreed. He actually seemed fairly excited about it and said that the Monk would still give me some utility, albeit not in the same ways as a rogue.
If everyone thinks however, that the rogue is the way to go, then I may have some more considering to do before our game this weekend.
Thanks again everyone.
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I have a dwarf drunken qigong master of many sacred mountain styles (because I could and like the idea of taking 4 archetypes). But yea, it's a decent tank spec that has a lot to offer. Look into this for feats:
1g Dodge
1b Snake Style
1h Combat Reflexes
2b Snake Fangs
3g Crane Style
5g Weapon Finesse
6b Crane Wing
7b Crane Riposte
9g Favorite 3rd style (I suggest Boar, Monkey, or Snapping Turtle)
10b More fun feats
11g Even more fun style feats
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The main reason I will probably go with the monk though, is because I had just late yesterday asked my DM if he'd be willing to design one string of style feats based around Drunken Boxing. I know there is an archetype for it, but I felt that it didn't exactly handle the mechanics of really fighting drunk and luckily my DM agreed. He actually seemed fairly excited about it and said that the Monk would still give me some utility, albeit not in the same ways as a rogue.
Combine features from the Drunken Master and Monk of the Open Hand for a new archetype, and Monkey Style works fairly well for more flavor (assuming you're inspired from Jackie Chan's Legend of Drunken Master as I am) for it.
However, I was actually thinking about going to the monk. Granted, they don't get disable device, but since the DM is allowing traits, I was looking at the Wisdom in the Flesh and choose disable device as a skill. While it's true I won't have Trapfinding which can be very useful, disable device would then be a class skill and use my Wis modifier for the check..
Without Trapfinding you can’t disable magical traps. In some campaigns this won’t be a problem. In others, this could be a party killer. Ask your DM.
@Black Powder Chocobo I shall check out the Monk of the Open Hand. I was thinking of hitting up the Crane Styles before others just for the extra defense it affords, but Snake is good too. Monkey is definitely going to fit into the style somewhere.
He seemed to have the general ideas of what he wanted to do for the style feats, he just said he'd have to write them out and tweak them. The actual style feat, from what he told me, would be more about drinking while fighting and dodging in some way.
The second feat, will add different uses to bull rush possibly to emulate leaning / falling on the opponent and all around getting up in their face (like Jackie Chan's character did).
Finally he was thinking of something that if there was a successful attack against me, that I would get some sort of attack on a different adjacent enemy. With the last one he told me that the way he intended to word it was that it would be useable with the Crane Wing deflect ability.
@DrDeth I will most definitely ask him what the chances are on magical traps. If there is a good chance then I either go back to my rogue or hope that the second possible Tank decides to play and go with a rogue.
Very useful input, thank you.
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Monk of the Open Hand reminds me of the various battle scenes where he's using a bench, sacks of flour, etc.
The Drunken Master prestige class in 3.5 was more along those lines, except with powers that were too weak (Corkscrew Rush for example). Still, might be a good place to look if you can find the book/info.
Some ideas for changes:
Drunken Fist replaces stunning fist as a Bonus feat, with Drunken Fist increasing in damage as Elemental Fist does for a Monk of the Four Winds (1d6, 2d6 at level 5, 3d6 @ 10, etc). Alternatively, Drunken Strength from the Drunken Master archetytpe can be used as a free action by using up 2 ki points, one of which must be drunken ki. It always annoyed me that the sudden drunken damage boost couldn't be used with other Ki abilities (heck a lot of abilities) since it was a swift action.
Bonus feats: You could have it be where SOME style feats can be selected as bonus feats along with the normal monk list (or outright change the list as per the Flowing Monk). Of course you'll have to work with the DM on that.
Firewater Breath: Make it scalable with level capping the ki that can be spent for damage. Ex., level 5 deal 5d6 damage for 1 ki point. At level 10, can increase it to 10d6 damage for 2 ki points, etc. Makes it flexible and usable far earlier that it currently holds.
Fast Drinker feat: Lower the Con required for that; Con 18 is way too high a prereq for this feat.
Drunken Flurry: Allow use of improvised weapons for a flurry of blows as per Monk of the Empty hand while the Drunken Master has at least one point of drunken ki.
Purity of Body: Keep that, perhaps drop slow fall for Drunken Strength. /shrug
Good luck!
BPC
I like the monk idea. But not the drunken monk. I know there are legends and even a movie about it, but I just can not suspend my disbelief enough to get into that one. I also planned to cast neutralize poison on ours to get rid of the alcohol effects when he got too obnoxious. I would suggest the tetori (I think that's the one) monk to trip, disarm, and grapple.
The improvised weapon fighter. Those can be fun. I think it would go better with a barbarian build though.
I think the rogue build can be a very good party face if you don't dump your Int and Cha and pump the right skills.
I normally like the druid/ranger pack master types. But it sounds like you already will have a large group so that will tend to slow things down even more.