Mounts and initiative

[Ravingdork]

The rules clearly state the following:
Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.

My eidolon mount has Flyby Attack. Generally, eidolons and summoners act independently in the initiative order. What happens to the eidolon's initiative if he were to swoop in, grab the summoner or other ally up into the saddle, and continue moving away?

Does his initiative suddenly lower to that of his new rider? If so, what happens if the would-be cavalier jumps off at some point? Does the eidolon's initiative revert to its old values?

Or do they continue functioning independently, having to use readied actions and other inefficient means of combat?

[wraithstrike]

Do the rules even support putting an ally into a saddle and moving away?

The eidolon really only to obey the summoner. If he chooses to be a mount then he should wait to be told what to do meaning his initiative would be lowered. It also keep adjudication and book keeping problems down instead of trying to figure out new rule, which is basically what happens if a mount is not really a mount.

[Ravingdork]

wraithstrike wrote:

Do the rules even support putting an ally into a saddle and moving away?

Not really. That's what Flyby Attack is for. He can move some of his fly speed, take ANY standard action (such as picking up an ally), and continue moving up to the limits of his fly speed.

wraithstrike wrote:

The eidolon really only to obey the summoner. If he chooses to be a mount then he should wait to be told what to do meaning his initiative would be lowered. It also keep adjudication and book keeping problems down instead of trying to figure out new rule, which is basically what happens if a mount is not really a mount.

This is similar to what I was thinking as well.

[Starglim]

This situation doesn't cause any sudden magical changes to the initiatives of anyone involved. If the eidolon wasn't on the same initiative as the summoner already (which seems unnecessarily complicated) it completes its current turn by picking up and carrying the intended rider, then either the summoner can delay until the eidolon's turn, or take his turn and then the eidolon delays into the next round.

[Eridan]

May rules are:

Rider and mount are separated: Everybody acts independent.
Rider is riding: Rider and mount acting simultanous.
Rider swoops in the saddle: Rider is controlling the mount so the iniative of the mount is set to the riders ini
Rider swoops out of the saddle: Rider and mount act on the same iniative but independent.

For your other problems differ between "riding" and "grabbing". If a dragon grabs you and flies away you are not riding the dragon :)

[LazarX]

Ravingdork wrote:

The rules clearly state the following:

Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.

My eidolon mount has Flyby Attack. Generally, eidolons and summoners act independently in the initiative order. What happens to the eidolon's initiative if he were to swoop in, grab the summoner or other ally up into the saddle, and continue moving away?

Can't fit that all into the action economy of one turn. You're essentially talking about two fly by actions in one turn. Your first turn is take up fully with the eidolon approaching the summoner picking him up and moving away from the summoner's old position... You're done at that point.

[karkon]

Ravingdork wrote:

The rules clearly state the following:

Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.

My eidolon mount has Flyby Attack. Generally, eidolons and summoners act independently in the initiative order. What happens to the eidolon's initiative if he were to swoop in, grab the summoner or other ally up into the saddle, and continue moving away?

Does his initiative suddenly lower to that of his new rider? If so, what happens if the would-be cavalier jumps off at some point? Does the eidolon's initiative revert to its old values?

Or do they continue functioning independently, having to use readied actions and other inefficient means of combat?

You are asking a few different things. If you are using your eidolon as a mount then you use the basic mount rules as written.

To do your fancy swoop in mounting you have two options. Option one takes more effort but simplifies everything for the summoner. It goes like this: The summoner readies an action to mount the eidolon when it grabs him. The eidolon swoops in and grabs the summoner. The prepared action goes off and now you are in the saddle. The eidolon continues to move. For the rest of the combat you use the mounted rules and no longer need to coordinate movements.

Option two is faster on the mount but complicates fighting. Your eidolon does a flyby and grabs you. You don't resist and are automatically grabbed. However you are not mounted but grappled so you don't use the mounted combat rules instead you use regular initiative for you and your eidolon. I think option one is the way to go.

[LazarX]

If the Eidolon is grabbing the summoner, the latter really isn't going to be in a position to mount the saddle. What Krakon is suggesting is the move you really want to do. So yes, because you need to ready an action your Summoner's intitative count drops to the point of the Eidolon's. The summoner's action is pretty much spent making the mount connection which is going to require a pretty good jump check on the part of the summoner, because the fact that we're dealing with a flying mount.

[Shfish]

And to put it more in line with the other part of your question using Krakon's suggestion:
Eidolon delays to Ally A's turn.
Ally A thows his hands in the air (ready to mount when picked up)
Eidolon comes out of delay and Fly By's the guy. Readied action of mounting goes off.

Both turns done, basically on the same init as Ally A now.