Hey guys,
I've got a character (called Lelouch, based on the protagonist from the Animé, Code Geass) that I'm finalising and his alignment (roleplay wise) has to be Neutral Good for my concept to work. For example, he's primarily good, but will make questionable sacrifices to reach his goal for the greater good.
Now, Abadar seemed like a good Deity for him as Law, Nobility and Travel are his domains.
However, I was going to go with Law and Travel, but with my character being NG (outside of Abadar's alignment slots) I know that he can't have the Law domain.
That leaves me with Nobility (Leadership) and Travel (Trade).
Iomedae however, allows me to have my Neutral Good alignment, but she has neither the Nobility or Travel domains, yet her ideals and morals are what my character believes in. He believes in justice and honour, is set to be a ruler in Kingmaker (the GM has told me this and we begin play in two weeks) and his priority is protecting the weak.
How would this work and who would I respect as my Deity? I'd have Abadar's domains and know that Abadar and Iomedae are allies, but I believe in Iomedae's way of seeing things more.
Is it possible to have two domains from one Deity, worship another deity and still get the domain powers and spells?
Sorry for such a long winded question. I just wanted to make it clear where I was going with this character as he's an idealist who relies on the power of manipulation, whilst being a strategist and tactician, aiding his allies whilst trying to use his diplomatic abilities to turn friend or foe into his pawns, convincing them to fight for his cause. He's also of Noble upbringing as an Orlovsky in the Kingmaker setting.
He has a 7 Str, with his focus being on Charisma and Wisdom. He'll be using things such as command, murderous command, enthrall, geas/quest and everything that comes under enchantment and compulsion, with some spells such as Bull's Strength for team support, as he'll want to keep his tools of war alive.
The Nobility and Travel domains work best for this character, especially as he's intelligent and will be casting command spells/aid spells to get in close, then use a dimensional hop/door to move around the battlefield.
He won't ever be in the front lines for longer than he has to (only to command everything and then get out again) and he has no armour, so without Strength or Armour, he is sheerly a support character, aiming to control and manipulate others for a greater good.
Stats:
Str: 7
Dex: 13
Con: 14
Wis: 16
Int: 11
Cha: 16
BAB: 0
CMB: -2
CMD: 10
For defensive purposes:
Darkwood Light Crossbow
Bolts x30
Other equipment:
Zero Outfit with helmet (so people don't know his true identity) - 26gp, 9lb's
Bedroll - 1sp, 5lb's
Rations x4 - 2gp, 4lb's
Quick answer is to be a Separtist Cleric. Second domain is weaker, and no Favored Weapon, but you get the domains you want for the character you have in mind.
Quick answer is to be a Separtist Cleric. Second domain is weaker, and no Favored Weapon, but you get the domains you want for the character you have in mind.
That's interesting, but I don't like the fact you have to choose one from your deities domain list and then one of your choice, but at a minus to your stats. With a minus on casting spells, it'd be fine for self buffing, but I doubt I'll be buffing myself up at all.
So, I guess a question around this is, would it be possible to follow Abadar, using his domains, but be Neutral Good and follow the characters own ideals?
I don't really know how being outside of your deities alignment works.
Hopefully what I'm asking is fine to do and won't prevent me from gaining my domains spells and supernatural abilities.
Separatist Cleric is literally the exact thing you want. It allows you to get a domain outside your deities list, albeit at a cost... namely, its less good than one from that list. Its a tradeoff, and its not unfair; custom domain choice really isn't in the spirit of the class IMO, and the whole 'cleric of no god' thing that lets you pick any two is kindof an artifact option or a GM tool with the Oracle being an option nowadays.
If its alignment you're concerned about... well, Cleric isn't really the appropriate class for what you're wanting to do. Clerics are the devoted servants to their deities ideals; they exemplify what it means to follow their deity.
If you want to go your own way and be a divine spellcaster, thats an Oracle.
If you want to interpret a deity differently and pursue your own goals, thats a Inquisitor.
All just my opinion, of course.
Quick answer is to be a Separtist Cleric. Second domain is weaker, and no Favored Weapon, but you get the domains you want for the character you have in mind.That's interesting, but I don't like the fact you have to choose one from your deities domain list and then one of your choice, but at a minus to your stats. With a minus on casting spells, it'd be fine for self buffing, but I doubt I'll be buffing myself up at all.
So, I guess a question around this is, would it be possible to follow Abadar, using his domains, but be Neutral Good and follow the characters own ideals?
I don't really know how being outside of your deities alignment works.
Hopefully what I'm asking is fine to do and won't prevent me from gaining my domains spells and supernatural abilities.
In general (there's a few exceptions), as long as you're within one step of your deity, you get everything you'd normally get. However, you can't take an alignment domain unless you are that alignment, even if your god offers it. You also can't take one if you are the right alignment and your god doesn't offer it. So you're just kindof out of luck - there's no way to get Law unless you're lawful.
The one exception is separitist, as mentioned before, which would let you get Law if your deity is lawful and you aren't. Keep in mind that the stat penalty for being a separatist ONLY applies to the domain powers from your second domain. All your spells and all your powers from the first domain are as normal.
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Given that this is a home game, not PFS, you're free to say that you don't worship any deity specifically, and choose your own domains. However, this still won't let you choose the Law domain. At this point, I have to ask... The Law domain says "You follow a strict and ordered code of laws, and in so doing, achieve enlightenment." That's a very lawful thing. Why would you (in character) want to have that domain when you don't believe enough in a code of laws to be LG instead of NG?
You could always choose to follow an ideal instead of a deity. If you explain your concept to your GM, they should let you do it. Then you pretty much get to pick any two domains, you just don't get a favored weapon.
Do you still get your supernatural abilities and domain spells, though? My GM said that even if you follow your own ideals, you still get your abilities from a Deity. :/
@Bobson - Sheerly for command as a supernatural ability. This fits the character concept perfectly, but I think Nobility and Travel are the domains I'm sold on now, as command is all I want from the Law domain, nothing more.
Also, Abadar allows you to be the Neutral alignment, so as I'd be one step within that alignment, could I get away with being Neutral Good?
Following his own ideals is what the character should do, but I want to ensure I can use the domain spells and abilities. Reluctantly, I was assigned to be the party Cleric and so I wanted to make something that I'd enjoy playing and that is the concept above.
@Krispy - I somewhat agree with you, but Oracle just isn't an option for me as I really don't like them too much. I don't think a single Oracle would be great at both aiding and manipulating, but then I could be wrong on that front. I haven't ever used one and just feel for the sake of healing the party, a Cleric would be best, even though my guy is clearly wanting to do things on his own accord.
I guess you could say that my guy is willing to use his Deity as his pawn, too, knowing that he aids him in his goals.
Also, Abadar allows you to be the Neutral alignment, so as I'd be one step within that alignment, could I get away with being Neutral Good?
In the core rules, a Cleric must be within 1 "step" of his/her deity's alignment. For Lawful Neutral, that's Lawful Good, Lawful Evil, or True Neutral... a "diagonal" is two steps (1 for Lawful to Neutral on the Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic axis, and 1 for Neutral to Good on the Good/Neutral/Evil axis; think of True Neutral as "Neutral Neutral" and it seems a little easier to follow).
In Golarion, you must have a deity; if your DM is using that ruling, then concepts are out. That's not a general rule, though; it is campaign-world specific.
Also, Abadar allows you to be the Neutral alignment, so as I'd be one step within that alignment, could I get away with being Neutral Good?
No. Abadar is Lawful Neutral. You have to be withing 1 step of that. So Lawful Neutral, Lawful Good, Lawful Evil, or true Neutral. You can not be a neutral good cleric of Abadar.
Do you still get your supernatural abilities and domain spells, though? My GM said that even if you follow your own ideals, you still get your abilities from a Deity. :/
If you follow an ideal instead of a deity, you still gain everything the domains give. However, if playing in the Golarion setting, you can't be a cleric of an ideal - you must choose a deity.
That sucks, but thanks guys.
I guess it all comes down to perception, then.
I mean my guy would be doing things how he wants to, but if he has to stick to being Neutral, I guess you could class telling someone to kill their ally, steal something or assassinate someone could be seen as bad (even if the command is given to a bad person) and his idea of a greater good could be seen as selfish as they're his own desires.
So, even if someone joins his cause, controlling people and judging them as he sees fit could be seen as bad, but keeping his allies alive could be seen as good? I guess you could be true Neutral if you have compassion for others, but are more than willing to kill and sacrifice for anything good to happen?
I guess that's all down to the GM's discretion.