Unconventional Vital Strike

[Unmitigated]

Can a Paladin use Vital Strike to deliver a Lay on Hands to an undead creature?

What about Antipaladin and Touch of Corruption?

Same question regarding Ghosts and Corrupting Touch.

[Drejk]

Using Lay On Hands or Touch Of Corruption to damage your opponent is a standard action but it is different action than an attack action required for Vital Strike. I am not sure about Corrupting Touch.

[Name Violation]

not in the same round (LoH is a standard action and VS is an "attack action" which is effectively a standard action except for very specific corner cases)

but if you are holding the charge (can you do that with LoH?).....? MAybe

[Bobson]

No, vital strike only works on weapon attacks.

Quote:

When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.

[Unmitigated]

Bobson wrote:

No, vital strike only works on weapon attacks.

This is obviously untrue as it can be used on natural weapons, including the eye rays of the Jabberwock.

[pobbes]

I don't believe vital strike would work in any of your questioned situations. The reason being that the damage from those attacks are all magical damage which are subject to a fortitude save (except that lay on hands has that undead exception...). Anyway, it is a type of extra damage dice which isn't multiplied by vital strike like precision damage of the damage dealt from energy enhancements on a weapon.

Essentially, when using these abilities, you are performing a touch attack which deals 0 damage physically to inflict your magical effect on your opponent. Vital strike would really by multiplying the 0 physical damage on this side of the equation.

If you are interested in stacking damage like that, you are better off with channel energy and the channel smite feat. Though, vital strike still would not multiply the channel damage.

Oh and Name Violation is correct that Vital strike and these abilities both use their own standard actions so they cannot be used in tandem.

Edit: Wait, I almost forgot. There is a way to combine these things. Crusader's Fist would allow you to vital strike with an unarmed attack and use a swift action to activate your lay on hands or touch of corruption. Again, the vital strike damage would not multiply your lay on hands damage.

[Mauril]

Unmitigated wrote:

Bobson wrote:

No, vital strike only works on weapon attacks.

This is obviously untrue as it can be used on natural weapons, including the eye rays of the Jabberwock.

Natural weapons are weapons. Rays are also weapons. No contradiction here. Bobson did not specify "manufactured weapons" which is the language the books use to exclude natural weapons and weapon-like abilities.

Regarding the OP: I wouldn't allow any damaging ability where the damage dice scale with level to be a candidate for Vital Strike. Also, if I can't use multiples of it in a full-round action, I'd probably also disallow it from being a candidate for Vital Strike.

[Sangalor]

It does not work.

[Gignere]

Mauril wrote:

Regarding the OP: I wouldn't allow any damaging ability where the damage dice scale with level to be a candidate for Vital Strike. Also, if I can't use multiples of it in a full-round action, I'd probably also disallow it from being a candidate for Vital Strike.

Your monk players must hate you.

[Mauril]

Gignere wrote:

Mauril wrote:

Regarding the OP: I wouldn't allow any damaging ability where the damage dice scale with level to be a candidate for Vital Strike. Also, if I can't use multiples of it in a full-round action, I'd probably also disallow it from being a candidate for Vital Strike.

Your monk players must hate you.

I don't have any monk players. Also, monk UAS scales oddly, rather than Xd6 per level. The damage die increases, rather than adding more dice. It's more like increasing weapon size than a normal level based scale.

I probably should have been more precise and said "damaging ability where the number of damage dice scale with level".

[Mabven the OP healer]

When you use Lay on Hands(Su) to do damage to undead, you are not using the attack action. You are using your standard action to activate your Supernatural Ability - this specific Supernatural ability says that you are required to make a melee touch attack, but that does not change the action type from Standard Action to activate to Attack action. Since Vital Strike requires that you make an Attack Action, you may not use the feat with Lay on Hands.