What the title said. Many spells state that a creature gets a bonus on the saving throw or some other boon if they are about to be forced to do something that would harm them.
What if a wizard hands an NPC under the influence of charm or suggestion a book with exploding runes on it and says "here buddy, read that for me, while you step onto that floor tile over there (which is a concealed trap)".
It would obviously be harmful for the NPC, but until he's read it/triggered the trap, he doesn't know that...
Could you be more specific about what spells you have in mind?
For example in case of guidance the NPC would read the book (unaware of the trap), trigger the surprise and be forced to make a saving throw. After the triggering but before rolling he would have to choose if he uses the +1 bonus from guidance or not. Deciding if the bonus is used is part of making the saving throw, before actual dice is rolled.
Sorry for being unclear. I was talking about spells that command and/or influence the actions of creatures, like charm or suggestion for example. It is stated in the rules for some of these spells that it is easier to resist the commands if the outcome of said command is harmful to the commanded creature. (command undead has that line too in the case of intelligent undead)What I want to know is wether or not the commanded creature has to be aware of the danger to be able to resist.
It's a *will* save - I would rule that the victim must be aware of the danger to gain the +2. I suppose the counter-interpretation would be that "the tapestry of magic" or wherever it is that arcane magic comes from "knows all", and *grants* the unknowing victim a +2 based on *its* knowledge of the danger, but that's not the interpretation I would use.
Going one further, I would even rule that *if* the victim had been convinced that reading the book is a good idea (through use of a successful bluff, say), then he might even be at -1 or -2 to save, as he would regard reading the book as "a reasonable course of action" or even "a good idea."
I don't think you will find any more guidance from the rules that what is in the spell description.
My $0.02: They would not receive the bonus save if they were unaware that it was harmful, so tricky PC's can get away with a lot. If the NPC is able to determine that the PC's sole motivation of a request/command is to harm them I would give a save after the fact.
For example:
PC Wizard: says to charmed NPC, "Take and read the book".
Charmed NPC: "OK". <Boom!> "Oh! The Horror!"
PC Wizard: "Teee-hee-hee"
PC Fighter: "Haw-Haw, he went boom"
PC Rogue: "Wow! His hat flew further that the last sucker's"
Clearly his 'friends' are not his friends. I would grant the roll after the 'harm' in lieu of the roll before the harm.
I acknowledge is it not RAW.
Sorry for being unclear. I was talking about spells that command and/or influence the actions of creatures, like charm or suggestion for example. It is stated in the rules for some of these spells that it is easier to resist the commands if the outcome of said command is harmful to the commanded creature. (command undead has that line too in the case of intelligent undead)What I want to know is wether or not the commanded creature has to be aware of the danger to be able to resist.
IMO if the victim of the spell has no reason to believe that the dictated action will be harmful he won't get bonus to saving throw. Of course being asked to step on a very specific floorstone in an abandoned temple full of traps sounds somewhat suspicious.
In case of charm or dominate spells that are already affecting him he won't get another saving throw. Instead, he will get a saving throw afterwards (in case of dominate-like spells), while most charms will be broken immediately - unless, from the victim's point of view the character that asked him to perform the action had absolutely no knowledge of the danger (very-very unlikely - perhaps the wizard asked charmed rogue to check for traps, he failed to find anything, told the wizard so and then went further according to the wizard's request triggering the trap he failed to find oneself).
perhaps the wizard asked charmed rogue to check for traps, he failed to find anything, told the wizard so and then went further according to the wizard's request triggering the trap he failed to find oneself