Could a Monk 1/Rogue 1 deal nonlethal sneak attack with an unarmed attack?
According to RAW I wanna say no, because sneak attack says that if you can deal lethal damage with the weapon then you have to deal lethal sneak attack damage. But seems a bit silly that you can nonlethal SA with an unarmed strike if you're not "proficient" with it, (sucking an attack of opportunity as well) but you lose the ability to do so as soon as you can make it lethal.
Thoughts?
Why couldn't he? I thought that in the rules it still allows you to make nonlethal attacks with unarmed even if you have the improved unarmed strike.
From the rules on Monk (since you asked specifically about that):
Usually a monk's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
The Monk can switch between lethal/non-lethal as they want, so the sneak attack would be whatever they are doing at the moment.
Should be in Rule Questions...
Also, I think the answer is "Yes they can." The line about lethal damage is there to mean a sword, etc. Unarmed strikes can be used non-lethally, and are even called out like that.
Kewl. That means that a non-lethal monk/rogue with Sap Adept and perhaps Sap Master later on is completely viable and awesome. Thank you. :)
Only when they're flat-footed.
Only when they're flat-footed.
That's why Sap Master later on. As it's rather circumstantial. But Sap Adept you can do all day long as long as you've got the ability to sneak attack.
Even though a 20th level dual-wielding sap rogue, assuming it hits with all six attacks, will pretty much one-shot most classes, and a good number of monsters too, as long as it catches them flat-footed. ;)
Only when they're flat-footed.
That's why Sap Master later on. As it's rather circumstantial. But Sap Adept you can do all day long as long as you've got the ability to sneak attack.
Even though a 20th level dual-wielding sap rogue, assuming it hits with all six attacks, will pretty much one-shot most classes, and a good number of monsters too, as long as it catches them flat-footed. ;)
I think (though I'm not sure) that what cheapy is referring to is to use the scout archetype for the rogue, which will make your enemies flat footed all the day long (at the expense of iterative attacks since you either have to charge or move 10ft)
prototype00
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Monk of the empty hand + Rogue + improved disarm + sap master = take their weapons from them and beat the snot out of them with their own weapons.
After all "A monk of the empty hand treats normal weapons as improvised weapons with the following equivalencies (substituting all of their statistics for the listed weapon): a light weapon functions as a light hammer, a one-handed weapon functions as a club, and a two-handed weapon functions as a quarterstaff."
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Enforcer + Shatter Defenses = awesome build.
Honestly, you don't need monk at all. Go ninja, take the unarmed combat mastery ninja trick, and start picking up your shatter defenses prerequisites.
You can nab some of the other goodies too, like knockout artist. TWF is nice for this, because the penalties for being flat footed help offset the attack bonus penalties for twf.
Fair warning - there are some things that are immune to nonlethal damage, so be prepared to enter flanking position as needed.
Just to show that it is allowed to sneak attack non-lethally with unarmed strikes, look at knockout artist.
"Benefit: When you use your unarmed strike to deal nonlethal damage and sneak attack damage to an opponent"