I was reading the dragon disciple guide and got hooked with an idea for a dragon disciple.
I want to make a half elf paladin / sorcerer (crossblooded: dragon/boreal) / silver dragon.
For the build, I want to give him/her a reach weapon (lucerne hammer for flavor unless it really sucks in action).
For feats and traits, eldritch heritage at 3rd level and improved eldritch heritage 13th level for the boreal powers of cold steel and snow shroud are a must. I would take the magical knack trait for sorcerer. Half elf skill focus goes to survival for boreal bloodline. I think this build wouldn't do will with dazzling display because of the crossbloodedness.
I think the starting scores on a 20 pt buy would be
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 7
Cha 16 (Racial here)
My biggest question is do I go paladin 2 / sorcerer 3 for paly saves and better caster level and bloodlines (5th level spells at level 15), or do I go paladin 4 / sorc 1 for paly aura, disease immunity, 1 higher BAB, etc but lower caster level and bloodlines (only 4th level spells at level 15)?
Also recommendations on feats, skills, and spells are appreciated. I was thinking power attack and arcane strike for sure. Maybe still spell and keeping armor on, and probably looking to never cast a spell with a save. I didn't dump int because I wanted to have at least a few skills. (Perception, UMD, and Fly minimum, and would like to have a face skill or two)
For combat, I'm picturing a silver winged gish dropping an obscuring mist (or solid fog if I have a ring of free action) and flying around the monsters and beating them with a big long hammer, then clawing and biting if they close range.
What do you think? How can this build stay relevant through about 15th level?
it depends on how much melee pain you want to bring.
Oathsworn (Oath of Vengeance) paladin gets a crazy amount of smiting at level 4, so if you go paladin 4/sorcerer 1, I'd go Oath of Vengeance.
Another thing to consider is that if you ever worry about running out of rounds of claws/bite during the day, you can buy a masterwork cestus (and possibly enchant it).
Power Attack and Arcane Strike are excellent choices, as you noted. As for spells, obviously buff spells never allow saving throws to be effective, and they're one of the few types of spells you can choose knowing in advance who you're going to be casting it on, so you don't (for example) run into an issue like only having mind-affecting spells and running up against undead. I'd learn Protection from Evil or Magic Circle against Evil if I were you just to give your allies additional saves against evil juju.
So you think oath of vengeance would be definitely preferable to a higher sorcerer level? It would get me 4 smites a day instead of 2 with just 4 levels.
I like two levels of Paladin in this build, myself. I like getting access to the higher level sorcerer spells, though.
You have to consider that too many paladin levels delay flight significantly, a pure sorc/DD gains flight at level 11. Each level of paladin delays that by 1.
You would need blindfighting to attack people with a reach weapon in obscuring mist/solid fog, well ok need is a strong word, but the rerolls of miss chances will be extremely useful.
Also you cant really use a reach weapon + claw bite combo (you cant claw with hands holding items) and if you drop the hammer while flying you wont be able to pick it back up till the end of the fight.
PFS or home game rules? as these determine some limits on feats and traits which are important for dragon disciples (im assuming home game from the level 15 but I could be wrong).
What is your starting level?, and what sort of progression are you running?, house rules we should know of?
All of the above will effect what build would be most useful, the biggest issue with crossblooded is it destroys your spells known
Pal2/sorc3/dd10 has casting level 10 spells known (8/4/3/2/1/1)
Pal4/sorc1/dd10 has casting level 8 (7/4/2/1/1)
Generally speaking, your build is similar to what I'm playing right now. I do suggest Power Attack and Arcane Strike. Arcane Armor feats are also necessary as soon as you can take them and afford mithral armors. I used to have a lucerne hammer, but decided to switch it out for a greatsword. The hammer was working out well to keep enemies at bay for survivability and casting, but I wanted more reliable damage. Also, finding greatswords as treasure is a lot more common than finding lucerne hammers.
As a side note, I personally wouldn't do a crossblooded Sorcerer unless I was playing a human. Half-elves are nice if you're multiclassing (I chose that race, too), but I think you might have one too many things going on here.
First off as far as I understand it the DD advances both bloodlines powers. It may not be RAI, but it seems RAW. As far as build goes I'll ask the following questions
1. are you married to boreal bloodline because both abyssal and orc bloodlines give much more love to a more melee build? If you have to have
boreal pick up the eld heritage feat for one of these for that fat +10 to str(+6 from bloodlines +4 from dd) plus orc bloodline is really good for blasting.
2.Another reason to go 4th level paladin; oath of vengeance would allow you to trade lay on hands for a few more smites. Its not like You'll want to channel energy anyway.
3.Are wings a must? I think from your post they are.
smite focused build
4pala/1sor crossblood abyssal/dragon/10DD You need still spell focus mainly on buffs, controls, and illusions. No blasting and you're summons will really lag plus you're not getting through SR and they'll make their save. power attack arcane strike extra smite and arcane armor +11 to hit combine with a 22 str(+4DD,+2 bloodline) Plus belt +6 give three attacks starting at +20 before weapon(Need a decent one for mid level), amulet of fists, or perm magic fang. Combine with form of dragon and smite away for ridiculous damage. Dont forget you can cast pal spells add a wand or scroll of deadly juggernought for fun
melee caster build
2pal/3sorCB abyssal/dragon/10DD this one's casting at 10th level so its not falling behind quite as much as above. Take claws twice invest in amulet or perm with magic fang. The rest is up to you.
Um, so you are taking Dragon Disciple using Crossblooded Sorcerer as an entry point, doing Boreal as your crossblooded bloodline. As you proceed with DD you are taking all of the bloodlines offered to you from the Draconic Bloodline. Then you are using Eldrich Heritage to pick up the rest of the bloodlines from Boreal. Great Idea in theory, but since Eldrich Heritage says you cannot choose a bloodline you already have, you might be in trouble.
Unless I am reading you wrong, or you got permission from your GM to do this. In which case, Kudos.
The Pal4/CBS1 entry is a beast build.
The Pal2/CBS3 entry is a beast caster build.
Obscuring mist is a great idea once you can ignore concealment from mist. Solid fog is good too, but is a level 4 spell. You have to go with the beast caster build just to get it by level 14.
Do the crossblooded, but pick up Eldrich Heritage Orc or Abyssal for extra strength. Go with Oath of Vengeance and pick up an Extra Lay on hands for another smite per day. By the time you get to 15th level, so many things will have true sight, Obscuring Mist will have lost it's luster. That plus illusions are cool, but you need to have more tricks in your back than that. It's a good trick though, if you can pull it off. Solid Fog is a cool idea, too bad you won't get it until level 16 with a 4 Pal build. But you should smite a fair bit more, so that's up to you.
True seeing does nothing in obscuring mist, its a common misconception, but the level 1 spell actually blocks sight even to those people with true sight up as its conjuration spell and the mist is real not an illusion.
"True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. It does not negate concealment, including that caused by fog and the like."
Which means you still have total concealment at ranges greater than 5 foot (ie they cant see you, and with blindsense you naturally know where they are inside the fog).
I also disagree with crossblooded as if you just want the arcana for mild changes to element type, your giving up 1 spell per level and taking a -2 on all will saves.
I do agree with Eldritch heritage abyssal or orc for ST that works well for both melee brutes and the more caster based ones
Well in that case, if you go with more caster levels, you can take spell expertise, Minor to get obscuring mist as a spell like ability and Quicken spell like ability to drop a couple of these as a swift action per day. A rod of lesser Quicken can do the job too, but then you have to drop it to put both hands on your hammer. Of course, there's always weapon cords, so there you go.
My eldritch heritage exploit was to take it at level 3, before taking a sorcerer level. Improved eldritch heritage doesn't have that requirement.
Cheese!
It's definitely a trade off between the 5th level spells and the oath of vengeance 5-6 smites per day.
also, with something like celestial armor, the 15% chance of losing a spell is the equivalent of missing on 1-3 when attacking. It doesn't seem that bad.
bfobar wrote: also, with something like celestial armor, the 15% chance of losing a spell is the equivalent of missing on 1-3 when attacking. It doesn't seem that bad. Except that if you miss with a weapon, you can swing all day long. You only have so many of each castings each day.
I still think it is worth it, but it is a bit more painful than missing with a weapon.
Metamagic Rods of Still Spell are very useful with armor builds.
Darnizhaan wrote: Metamagic Rods of Still Spell are very useful with armor builds. if they existed.
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