First I am the player not the GM. However, I'm asking this to help out my GM since he is nearly never online.
We are in an undead heavy campaign and not sure how to handle some of the things that have come up.
1) Some of the undead are invisible in addition to being incorporeal. Is this correct? This means we have to roll the 50% miss chance twice, once for invisible and once for incorporeal. Is this correct?
2) Can you channel positive energy against undead that have been detected but are still on the other side of a door or wall?
3) Possession lota questions on this one.
3a) How do you evict a possessing spirit?
3b) Can weapon attacks damage it once it is possessing someone? (Our PC had alot more hps than the ghost. Could we have just beat on him until it killed the ghost but left him still alive?)
3c) What magic can you use on a possessing spirit? Will channel energy still hurt it? What about cure light wounds (would it heal the body while damaging the spirit)? Will disrupt undead or command undead still work? Would a straight damage spell like shocking grasp work? Will blindness work?
3d) What can the possessing spirit do with the body it inhabits? If it takes over my wizard can it use my spells to zap the party?
Confused in AnkhMorPork.
Thanks.
Oh, and for number 1) we did all have magic weapons.
1) There is no miss chance for incorporeal creatures, incorporeal creatures talk half damage from weapon attacks which can hurt them (magic weapons).
2) No, Channel Energy is a burst effect so it is stoped by physical barriers. See Channel Energy in cleric description.
3) Possession does not eliminate the possessor's body so if that can be reached it can still be attacked. If the possessing entity moved his/her body inside the pc's body before possessing them, then it would be hard to hit and could be immune to channel energy since (as in 2 above) it is a burst effect. However, a Protection from Evil spell cast on the PC will prevent the Ghost from being able to control them.
On 1) thanks. I somehow didn't read that correctly. I'm not sure where I got the 50% miss chance from for incorporeal.
Unfortunately, our wizard has not been able to find a scroll of or anyone to teach him protection from evil. We have been under extreme time pressure in this campaign and have had almost no time to look for vendors of things like that or even to scribe some scrolls.
Out paladin has been taking lesser restoration for both of his spells since someones' abilities go down almost every single combat.
So to clarify:
1) Some of the undead are invisible in addition to being incorporeal. Is this correct? This means we have to roll the 50% miss chance for invisibility then it takes only haf damage from any hit that is not a force effect.
2) Can NOT channel positive energy against undead that have been detected but are still on the other side of a door or wall.
3) Possession, still lota questions on this one. (NOTE: all of the possessing spirits we have encountered so far are ghost/spirit things and do not have a body left behind that we could attack.)
3a) How do you evict a possessing spirit?
3b) Can weapon attacks damage it once it is possessing someone? (Our PC had alot more hps than the ghost. Could we have just beat on him until it killed the ghost but left him still alive?)
3c) What magic can you use on a possessing spirit? Will channel energy still hurt it? What about cure light wounds (would it heal the body while damaging the spirit)? Will disrupt undead or command undead still work? Would a straight damage spell like shocking grasp work? Will blindness work? (Based on Arkadwyn's response, it sounds like almost nothing will work since you can't see the spirit anymore.)
3d) What can the possessing spirit do with the body it inhabits? If it takes over my wizard can it use my spells to zap the party?
The invisible, incorporeal undead are fully affected by force effects, ghost touch weapons, and channel energy, assuming that any such attacks overcome the miss chance due to invisibility (as needed).
Evicting a possessing spirit would require in all likelihood dispel evil, (greater) dispel magic, or possibly the GM wants a specific ritual. I'd also rule that positive energy would still hurt an undead that is possessing someone, but only if they could be hit, so you'd be able to use channel energy against them. That's not RAW though.
.Evicting a possessing spirit would require in all likelihood dispel evil, (greater) dispel magic, or possibly the GM wants a specific ritual...
We're only 5th level so we don't have access to those yet. I hope those aren't the only spells that would work. He's not looking for a specific ritual. The GM is running a published AP (Carrion Crown). He said it has a lot of spirits that possess but he can't find any rules on it.
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Since u play a heavy undead campaign it may be good taking undead metamagic feats...Threnodic Spell, Thanatopic Spell etc
but don t try charm a possessive creature...it may come to u instead
To evict, turn undead i believe is the simplest way.
another cool way is have an inquisitor exorcist archetype...If u don t have that ask ur gm if it s possible to implement his class features somehow(take em as feats for example)
I would have to disagree with Arka on channeling positive energy on a possessed creature... flesh doesn t stop channeling energy so it both cures the living and harms the undead imo...
Since u play a heavy undead campaign it may be good taking undead metamagic feats...Threnodic Spell, Thanatopic Spell etc...
My wizard is seriously considering that.
...but don t try charm a possessive creature...it may come to u instead...
Yes, I think that would fit in the 'bad things' category.
...To evict, turn undead i believe is the simplest way.
another cool way is have an inquisitor exorcist archetype...If u don t have that ask ur gm if it s possible to implement his class features somehow(take em as feats for example)I would have to disagree with Arka on channeling positive energy on a possessed creature... flesh doesn t stop channeling energy so it both cures the living and harms the undead imo...
You mean take the turn undead feat then if the check succeeds they run away. Wouldn't they just run away with the possessed body? We don't have an excorcist. We just have a paladin. We had a cleric, but he died and the player switched to a gunslinger.
Gunslinger...sounds like Van Helsing...:D
Cool what u said about running away with the body...but if u tie the body then i believe the spirit would leave...if i was spirit i would prefer to look for another host than stay turned...
ugh... Subduing and tying up our gunslinger in the last fight would have been nearly impossible. He had just shot the paladin almost dead. None of the rest of us are strong enough. The GM was nice and said it left the gunslinger and tried to possess my wizard. We barely managed to kill it while it was trying to do that.
I will talk to the paladin about taking the turn undead feat.
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u can still subdue the possessed with normal magic such as hold person,paralyze and then tie him up(to be sure) and turn undead.
sounds like u had an overwhelming encounter....if that happens way too often it s a case of bad gm-ing...Unless you did something really really stupid...
there are some encounters called "easy if handled properly" these are very easy if you do something but they are tricky because they turn to overwhelming if you do something stupid...
Like curing a dieing animal companion of some druid. Out of gratitude the druid warns you of an evil ghost that haunts the forest he also casts resistance and bless on you. If you don t save the animal the druid ignores you and without his buffs the ghost encounter turns to overwhelming...
sigh...
Published AP. Unfortunately, we are pretty well know for doing something stupid way too often.
However, I think this case was more not knowing the rules. The paladin turned through the door to try and kill/damage the ghosties before we faced them (we didn't know that can't work). It came through the door at us and immediately possessed the gunslinger. While were trying to figure out what to do, it started shooting up the paladin. A critical and a regular hit the first round almost killed him. The GM decided to go with spells can effect the ghost, but it made the save. The paladin's last channel for the day did not kill it. We just weren't sure what to do.
My wizards spells are mostly for fighting undead so the only thing I had for use on the living was information gathering and a blindness. He probably would have made the save vs blindness (great saves).
On 1) thanks. I somehow didn't read that correctly. I'm not sure where I got the 50% miss chance from for incorporeal.
I'm pretty sure that was the 3.5 behavior if incorporeal - no chance to hit if you didn't have a magic weapon, 50% chance to hit if you had a magic weapon or a spell, and 100% if you had a ghost touch weapon or force spell.
Unfortunately, our wizard has not been able to find a scroll of or anyone to teach him protection from evil. We have been under extreme time pressure in this campaign and have had almost no time to look for vendors of things like that or even to scribe some scrolls.
Make it one of his free spells next time you level up. Or, even better, Communal Protection from Evil (from Ultimate Combat).
Hmm going off to battle with only 1 channel left is kinda...so don t blame the gm...
paladin is good vs undead but he is pretty much alone GS and Wiz aren t so good vs nether. Yeah those metamagic would improve things alot and from what i can tell u must have necromacy spell focus do you?
Oh, definitely not blaming the GM. Just that none of us are sure on all the rules about this. And he had 2 channels at the start of the encounter (I think that's all he gets) just that both of them together did not kill it. He doesn't currently have the turn undead feat.
Actually, I have the divination focus (when I made him we also had a cleric in the group). However, I have alot of necroomancy spells from a found spell book. What I had prepared at the start of the day was Mage Armor (which did help keep me from getting taken by the ghost), 2 detect undead (which is how we knew the ghosties were behind the door), and a command undead (it made the saving throw). Only the spells of a 4th level wizard at the time.
...Unfortunately, our wizard has not been able to find a scroll of or anyone to teach him protection from evil. We have been under extreme time pressure in this campaign and have had almost no time to look for vendors of things like that or even to scribe some scrolls.Make it one of his free spells next time you level up. Or, even better, Communal Protection from Evil (from Ultimate Combat).
Yeah, I hate the thought of burning a free 3rd level spell with a 1st or 2nd level spell. But I think I'm going to anyway. And yes, if I do it will be the communal version.
1) Some of the undead are invisible in addition to being incorporeal. Is this correct? This means we have to roll the 50% miss chance for invisibility then it takes only haf damage from any hit that is not a force effect, ghost touch, or channeled energy.
2) Can NOT channel positive energy against undead that have been detected but are still on the other side of a door or wall.
3) Possession, still lota questions on this one. (NOTE: all of the possessing spirits we have encountered so far are ghost/spirit things and do not have a body left behind that we could attack.)
3a) How do you evict a possessing spirit? (Got one vote that dispel evil, greater dispel magic, or excorcism.)
3b) Can weapon attacks damage it once it is possessing someone? (Our PC had alot more hps than the ghost. Could we have just beat on him until it killed the ghost but left him still alive?)
3c) What magic can you use on a possessing spirit? Will channel energy still hurt it? What about cure light wounds (would it heal the body while damaging the spirit)? Will disrupt undead or command undead still work? Would a straight damage spell like shocking grasp work? Will blindness work? (Got 1 vote for almost nothing works except dispel evil, one vote that the turn undead feat would make it run away if the body can't move, and 1 vote that channel energy will still damage it.)
3d) What can the possessing spirit do with the body it inhabits? If it takes over my wizard can it use my spells to zap the party?
Any other info on possession mechanics? Or does someone know where it might be written?
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I don t think dispel magic can do the job...for that u need to check the possessing spirit...if it has a possessing ability that is a spellike ability dispel works...if however which i think is the case it s a supernatural ability dispel does nothing, no matter how powerful the dispel is...
In any case u need some form of divine energy, or necromancy all other magics wouldn t affect undead
It seems wierd there isn't more info available for possession.
Since the published an AP with a bunch of monsters that try to possess PC's, I would think there would be a lot of people asking these questions.
I'd suggest looking around the Carrion Crown forum. There's probably a plot-based way to deal with it, but I'm not familiar with the modules, so I don't know what it is.
Well, since I'm a player, not the GM I was intentionally not looking there. Don't want to spoiler the campaign for myself. Was just trying to find the mechanics on how to deal with possession without the specifics on the campaign itself.
I may have to tell him he has to go online to the CC forum himself for more info.
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I don t think that GM of urs played the encounter correct...I think he is using either homebrew rules or has a very specific book...I ll later look on Book of vile darkness if that has anything...
IDK of any undead with ability to possess...but i m sure if there are such there would be info in the bestiary, but usually demons possess not undead...
here s the closest i got
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/demon-possessed -creature-template
Well, I don't actually know what it was called (we all horribly failed our knowledge religion checks). But it was 'ghostly.' Translucent / invisible, incorporeal, floated through a closed door to attack us, glowed bright on detect evil and detect undead. So I think it has to be undead.
I guess from his comments, I just assumed he was running as written. But I think he does still have several of his old 3.5 books somewhere, so maybe he did 'pencil' that into it. Of course, I would think he would then just use whatever 3.5 rules had for it. I've never read the Book of Vile Darkness. So I don't really know what's in it.
I removed a post. Don't endorse copyright infringement on our boards.
I removed a post. Don't endorse copyright infringement on our boards.
I don't believe anyone was intentionally endorsing copyright infringment. I have read in several places in at least 3 forums that WotC allowed it for books that are no longer in print.
However, I have to say, I've never seen it on WotC boards, so I'm not actually sure it's true. But it is at least a commonly held belief.