1. i would say yes, but that DD does not advance the non-draconic bloodline...
which seems intuitive, but others might try to argue :-)
i say that on the same logical basis that rhino hide armor only applies it's damage bonus to one charge attack, regardless if you can make several attacks via some other ability like pounce. DD was built around the (valid at the time) assumption that you could only have one bloodline.
2. i don't know on this one, but i would lean towards 'NO'.
DD is a Prestige Class meant to advance various abilities you have from previous classes,
not abilities you gain from feats that function like abilities that classes (bloodlines) grant.
i don't see a FLAVOR problem, but crunch-wise, i would lean towards NO.
3. yes, although that MAY be controversial. :-)
just check the wording for DD and ANY PrC that advances spellcasting for spontaneous casters (e.g. Rage Prophet)
'you gain spells known as if you advanced in the class' doesn't distinguish between what class feature grants you the spells known, so Bloodline Spells being part of a different class feature than 'standard' Sorceror Spell progression is irrelevant. If one argues Bloodline Spells are not spells known, then you can't cast them by the standard spellcasting rules. Since spontaneous casters have no (easy) way to augment their spells known / can't just BUY spells known (like Wizards), having less spells known is a huge handicap... This wording exists for a reason IMHO, namely that you are intended to match a full-class caster equivalent to your total caster level (i.e. caster levels + '+1 caster level' levels from PrC) in all aspects of CASTING. Again, that PRPG Sorcerors (with Bloodlines baked in) now split all aspects of casting between different class features is irrelevant, same as if I wrote up a custom class that gave each and every spell per day and spell known it's own unique class feature name, a PrC should grant all of those (if it's spontaneous).
By my reading, Rage Prophets get their Oracle Mystery spells (or Domain spells if they are advancing Cleric/Druid casting) AND the 'Rage Prophet Mystery Spells' as well (which are mostly pretty weak, so it's hardly unbalancing).
I believe 1 is a full yes, and was using that for more spiritual dragon disciple builds, using DD with crossed Sage for a Magus or Empyreal for a Monk, never taking the claws or wings or other partial shifts and monstrous visages that my group thinks are lame.
No on 3. It's advancing your spell casting and bloodline powers class features, and bloodline spells are a separate feature from both. It's the same reason why prestige classes also don't let wizards add free spells to their books.
If you allow adding the bloodline spells, then what do you do for DDs that are bards with no sorc levels at all, do they get those bloodline spells added to their bard list now?
I don't think it's unbalancing or would be a bad idea to allow, it's just not the RAW.
EDIT: But I'm apparently completely wrong, please disregard.
Well look at that. I'm confused by my absolute wrongness, but it is apparent.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Hmm ok new question
is it worth being a cross blooded sorcerer (Bronze dragon/Air) in PFS
Atm from what I have (for damage)
level 1 shocking grasp (4d6+4 at level 1 yeah I know its strong but I play up sometimes at level 1 and I dont want the monsters to be brave enough to come close)
Level 2 (no viable lightning spells I could get Intensified Shocking grasp as a full round spell?, and as a known spell acid arrow for a different damage type)
Level 3 (Lightning bolt and fireball)
Level 4 (Lightning damage fireball full round action)
Level 5 (Lightning arc, or intensified lightning fireball full round action)
Level 6 (Chain Lightning)
Not having lighting in a AoE (only a line) might be an issue at level 3 although if I need the burst I can always use fireball.
I get enough space for 3 meta magic feats and spell perfection (Quicken, Intensify and Elemental Spell), if I use rods to Empower/Extend.
This means I dont need crossblooded (giving me +1 spell per level and no will save penalty). Think Blaster/Melee (if they try to kill me)/Dragon
For a ranged weapon I will be using a sling as its so cheap and effective for a high ST character (full ST to damage which at level 11 is 1d4+10 damage without any enchantments)
If it helps you decide on some feats and such, I wrote up a column a few weeks ago about being a completely Strength-optimized DD. http://www.the-ush.com/index.php?topic=3744.0
Check it out, and keep in mind that after I wrote it I was informed that by RAW you can use crossblooded with DD, so I have a post at the bottom explaining what you'd change from what's up above. The final Str score that I came up with (for a single attack at a time) was 79 Strength (a +34 bonus). Have fun. :)
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I have been playing the Sorcerer. Crossblooded/ with the intent going
DD. Did not meta game it that much. just liked the idea of getting the extra damage dice Ele. Based (Fire burns ships down) Ask Todd Morgan sometime :) anyway.
Now that i am 6th lev i was going to go DD and one of the guys told me to look into it. But Hero Lab would let me. I was not too woried about it.
I like being Crossblooded just fine i'll just Re-make a Diffrent Arcane caster :) branch out do some crazy Barbarian magus DD build With my Teifling Boon. hehe
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... This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer gains spell slots of the spell's level.seems to me that RAW leans toward no (as you only gain the powers), but I don't see a huge issue allowing it
Ahem, the exact words you bolded are explicitly discussing how you gain bonus spells (from the bloodline).
This line is re-iterated beyond what the DD's Spells Per Day ability says:Note the obvious cut & paste of this ability from other PrC's... DD can ONLY advance spontaneous spellcasters, so the spells known is not an option, DD will advance it.
I believe it's reiterated under Blood of Dragons (the above wording in Spells Known is sufficient for other PrCs to grant bonus spells known gained from a class on it's own) because DD introduces the bizarre scenario where you only have partial Casting advancement, but you have full advancement of class abilities from bloodline, and the writers felt it was appropriate to discuss Bloodline Spells under Blood of Dragons. If they didn't explain the 'you don't gain spells known until you can cast them' thing, you would end up with spells known that you can't cast... I don't know how bad of a thing that would be, but they just wanted to make it clear how it works in this case.
Actually, with how it is written, I'm not sure if Bard-Dragon Disciples should in fact gain Bloodline Bonus Spells Known from their chosen Dragon Bloodline... Most Bards don't have Bonus Spells Known from their Class to begin with, and thus the only possible source of Bonus Spells Known (that is discussed in Blood of Dragons) would be the Bloodline itself, which is otherwise the context of that whole ability. On the other hand, that means adding Sorceror spells to the Bard list (although Bards have less spell levels/ would gain these spells later since they gain X level spells later), which is unusual enough that you would expect it to be called out...??? FAQ???
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I have argued "no" on Question 1.
Crossblooded is an archetype that allows a sorcerer "access to the skills, feats, and some of the powers of both bloodlines." Dragon disciple requires "if the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline." Indeed, if a bard becomes a dragon disciple, and then takes her first level in Sorcerer it would be impossible for her to take the crossblooded archetype.
A crossblooded sorcerer doesn't have the draconic bloodline. She has a combined bloodline that gives her some of the features of her two bloodlines, but not all of them. Heck, the sorcerer might not have chosen ranks in any of the class skills, any bonus spells, or any bonus feats from the draconic bloodline. How does that make for a dragon-blooded character?
I am building a sorc/DD for PFS play (keep this in mind when answering the questions below)
1. Can a crossblooded (Draconic/XXXX) sorcerer become a dragon disciple? (the obvious XXXX is an elemental bloodline matching my draconic one for free energy substitution)
2. The robe of arcane heritage would it apply to eldritch heritage feats taken by a sorcerer (im not worried if the answer is no, just need to know so I know which levels I qualify for certain things).
3. Bloodline spells, do you still attain them for the DD levels? (ie at level 5 I start leveling in DD, do I gain bloodline spells for character levels 7,9,11 from the draconic bloodline?)
I just tried to build this character in Hero Lab, which while probably not prefect does do a very good job at rule validation.
1) No not valid. Surprised me, but apparently cross-blooded with Draconic is not the same as Draconic.
2) Can't tell, Eldritch Heritage feat isn't implemented. I would say no personally.
3) Yes, you get the spells. Assuming your sorcerer level is high enough.
I have been asking this question in my area as well.
Hero lab lets you make the Jump with crossblooded.
I got the opposite result, although just selecting 'crossblooded' by itself won't invalidate it. You then need to select the two bloodlines and once you do dragon disciple is invalid.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I have argued "no" on Question 1.
Crossblooded is an archetype that allows a sorcerer "access to the skills, feats, and some of the powers of both bloodlines." Dragon disciple requires "if the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline." Indeed, if a bard becomes a dragon disciple, and then takes her first level in Sorcerer it would be impossible for her to take the crossblooded archetype.
A crossblooded sorcerer doesn't have the draconic bloodline. She has a combined bloodline that gives her some of the features of her two bloodlines, but not all of them. Heck, the sorcerer might not have chosen ranks in any of the class skills, any bonus spells, or any bonus feats from the draconic bloodline. How does that make for a dragon-blooded character?
A crossblooded sorcerer selects two different bloodlines. The sorcerer may gain access to the skills, feats, and some of the powers of both bloodlines she is descended from, but at the cost of reduced mental clarity and choice (see Drawbacks).
The line bolded above, to me, allows one to argue that as long as one of those two bloodlines is Draconic, you have the draconic bloodline. This obviously needs to be FAQd, but who knows when that would happen? The ambiguity, in my mind, shies toward allowing it rather than disallowing it, since you still get to choose bloodlines.
Also note the bolded part of the fluff text for the archetype:
...A draconic sorcerer who is also the culmination of a great destiny, an abyssal sorcerer from a family that dealt with devils, and an arcane sorcerer raised from birth by fey are all possible sources for crossblooded bloodlines.
That suggests that a crossblooded sorc can absolutely be a Draconic sorcerer with just a smattering of other powers from another bloodline.
I can definitely see where you are coming from with the argument against it, though.
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cartmanblack, players "select" all manner of things. A specialist wizard selects another school of magic, and finds it difficult to cast spells from that opposing school.
I agree, it's a gray area. If some other GM wanted to allow it at her table, I wouldn't object. But I don't see as how a cross-blooded sorcerer meets the requirements for dragon disciple. (To my way of thinking, either she has neither bloodline, or else she has both, and a dragon disciple is prohibited from having any other bloodline.)
I agree with Chris on this.
Additionally, personally unless there is very strong evidence to the contrary (like a Pathfinder developer post) I will go with the validation rules that Hero Lab provides if it can be checked. It has been pretty reliable and when a grey area can be checked and ruled out then that is what I will go with..
I guess my take on it is this;
Cross-blooded allows you to take two bloodlines that co-exist together. If the non-draconic bloodline cancels out the draconic bloodline, then the opposite would also be true and the archetype would be pointless.
As for the Dragon Disciple prc, it merely states that you have to have draconic blood, not only draconic blood. There is nothing in the write-up for DD that you cannot have a 2nd bloodline; Just that you have to have draconic blood which with taking the draconic bloodline you have your draconic blood.