Help with a melee inquisitor!


Advice

Liberty's Edge

Alright, chums! Time to help me, with either superb deductive reasoning or previous experience, fine-tune an inquisitor!

Here are a couple of stat arrays I'm considering: (20 point buy)

Half-Elf or Half-Orc

Str 16+2 (10)
Dex 14 (5)
Con 12 (2)
Int 10 (0)
Wis 14 (5)
Cha 8 (-2)

or

Str 15+2 (7)
Dex 14 (5)
Con 14 (5)
Int 10 (0)
Wis 14 (5)
Cha 8 (-2)

Domain: Animal (Feather)

Here's the current half-elf feat array, through level 10:
1) Weapon Proficiency (Fauchard) (Half-Elf bonus)
1) Combat Reflexes
3) Power Attack
3) Outflank (Inquisitor Bonus)
5) Boon Companion
6) Precise Strike (Inquisitor Bonus)
7) Heavy Armor Proficiency
9) Toughness
9) Paired Opportunist (Inquisitor Bonus)

I took the Animal domain because I want to be sure I've always got a flank buddy. Also, the bonus to perception checks is amazing.

Heavy Armor Proficiency is for eventual mithril fullplate, with an ioun stone boosting dexterity. I should be able to save money on magic armor and magic weapons with greater magic weapon and magic vestment and put that towards items like the ioun stone, str belt/wis headband, and a strand of prayer beads to boost those respective spells.

Skills I'll focus on are Intimidate (question on this later), Perception, and Sense Motive.

On Intimidate: Will the charisma make this unworkable? I could also take a feat like cornugon smash eventually, but the charisma penalty kinda hurts (this is partially why I'm considering half-orc, because they also have a bestial option for +2 perception instead of orc ferocity). Also, the 17 strength means a -1 to hit from levels 1-3, 8-11, etc. How big of a deal will that be? Does the inquisitor struggle to hit without an 18 to start?

How about teamwork feats? Am I missing out on something huge?


maybe not your thing but you did go with half-orc.

Take urban barbarian level 1
then inquisitor with the anger inquisition so your rage rounds will begin to stack later. the immediate attack vs someone that just hit you isn't bad either.

Once you've got inqiz level stacking with barb at -3 for rage then you can take a second level of barb for a rage power a good one is reckless abandon as it doesn't have a level requirement and improves with barb level. moment of clarity also good if you want to throw out a spell during rage.

so you get a barb2/inquiz18

You just need to be tactical and mindful of rage and your spells and don't be afraid to drop out of rage early and suffer the fatigue if you need to pop off some spells

Liberty's Edge

Oh, whoops - I forgot to mention that this is for PFS, so the build tops out at 12, or 14 for the special post-retirement mods..

That's why the flank buddy was valuable, because I won't always be able to rely on there being another melee character/flank buddy. This means the teamwork feats that rely on flanking will always be valuable.

Shadow Lodge

The animal companion thing is a neat aspect of the feather domain, but how useful it is it going to be when handle animal is an untrained skill and you have a penalty in charisma?

Liberty's Edge

0gre wrote:
The animal companion thing is a neat aspect of the feather domain, but how useful it is it going to be when handle animal is an untrained skill and you have a penalty in charisma?

Pssh, easy peasy. Snag a trait and drop a few skill points. The DC, at most, to get an animal to perform a trick it knows is 12, so that comes REALLY fast. Toss on a masterwork tool (some facepaint or a mask to make you look more like an animal and encourage empathy) and you get there superfast! (Edit: Not to mention it's a free action, which you get a bundle of, and you get a +4 to handle animal when handling an animal companion. Probably won't even require the trait.)

Which brings me to another question: Any suggested traits out there particularly great for inquisitors? I know some of the default generically good options, but my ears are open.


If you want to be a scary guy, half-orc inquisitors are very well suited to it. Try to keep Intimidate maxed and take the Cornugan Smash feat (Cheliax book). Basically anytime you use power attack you can make an intimidate check as a free action.

You opponents will be shaken most of the time. Any sneak attacking friends with shatter defenses will love you.


0gre wrote:
The animal companion thing is a neat aspect of the feather domain, but how useful it is it going to be when handle animal is an untrained skill and you have a penalty in charisma?

You gain a +4 circumstance bonus to Handle Animal checks regarding your animal companion, and they automatically learn a few bonus tricks that you do not have to teach them.

Grand Lodge

Have you checked out the feats in Orcs of Golarion?


Enchanting Armor is extremely cheap. Enchanting weapon is also not nearly as expensive as Standard Prayer Beans (45800). Also avoiding prayer beads protects you from Dispel Magic & lets you have something useful for your 3rd level spells (like Heroism).

Intimidate will work if you put rank on it on every level. You only get -1 from your CHA. For exaple considering against WIS bonus (+2) the Iquisitor Stren Gaze bonus will eat that up at the level 6. I've seen many "overkills" regarding Intimidate as a GM. Usually, if a creature can be intimidated a resonably high (=what you will get) is enough. The rest the players are doing is almost a waste of feats (why I'm saying almost :D).

On the teamwork feats you don't qualify for Outflank at the level 3. Also remember that you can change the latest during the adventure. I think Shake It Off is usually one of the best, if you don't scout a lot. Well Outflank also for melee chars, but as said it can't be taken until level 6.

On the STR issue. Yes Inquisitors are late bloomers. So I would probably do STR 18 choice on the optimization sense... Especially with reach weapon.


You need to swap precise strike with out flank as out flank has BAB requirement of +4 so you can't take until you are 5th level.

Grand Lodge

Have you considered the guided weapon property? Why Feather subdomain?

Liberty's Edge

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Have you considered the guided weapon property? Why Feather subdomain?

Guided is a 3.5 weapon property, not a pathfinder property, and thus is not PFS legal. (I mentioned PFS a bit late.)

The Feather subdomain grants half level to perception checks. I just realized it's a racial bonus, though, and won't stack with Keen Senses from half-elf. Given that it's only useful levels 6-12, I might go with the Fur subdomain instead, although THAT will interfere with the judgment and bane class features that are both also swift actions.

But mostly I was looking at one of those because the Speak with Animals feature is pretty underwhelming. There will certainly have to be some considerations made - maybe giving up the animal companion and picking up a different domain would be the way to go, although it means losing a flanking buddy and another potential damage soak for the party.

Losing the animal companion would also free up the 5th level feat slot for something else. The Destruction (Rage) subdomain isn't bad, but the destructive smite power hinges on wisdom for usage each day, which this character won't have just a ton of.

Thanks for the food for thought so far, guys, and nice catch on the teamwork feat. I had honestly just thrown them into an order without really looking at them closely, as this character isn't going to see play for a couple of weeks.

So now the list of potential domains includes Animal (fur) and Destruction (Rage). Any other good ones I shouldn't miss noticing?


Axebeard wrote:


So now the list of potential domains includes Animal (fur) and Destruction (Rage). Any other good ones I shouldn't miss noticing?

any reason your not looking at Inquisitions ?

Grand Lodge

Guided is Pathfinder.

Liberty's Edge

Hm, I thought it was released as a pathfinder adventure path before the system took off, but I guess you're right. I still don't think it's PFS legal, though, as it's not listed on their additional resources page. (The path 10, history of ashes.)

As to why I'm not looking at inquisitions, it's because the internet told me they were bad. The anger inquisition looks pretty good, though, and grants rage sooner.

Grand Lodge

Is this a PFS character?


Axebeard wrote:
So now the list of potential domains includes Animal (fur) and Destruction (Rage). Any other good ones I shouldn't miss noticing?

Plant (Growth) allows you to enlarge yourself for WIS+3 rounds per day, but it is a swift action each round, meaning a lot of swift action juggling from round to round.

Shadow Lodge

My favorite domains:
Travel - ignoring difficult terrain, dimension hop, faster base movement, all great abilities.
Liberation - Freedom of movement is awesome! Also the 8th level power lets your allies ignore some of the more common nasty conditions in the game.
Glory (and Heroism!) - The first level power works well with intimidate or diplomacy, it's a +Level bonus to a charisma based bonus and you have an hour to use it. With Heroism, at 8th level you can give everyone in your party heroism for rounds per level which is also pretty great.

Lots more are fun... I've been thinking of building a cleric so riffling through them quite a bit. I also like feather a lot for the same reasons you do. But personally, I've sworn off Animal Companions and Eidolons for my PFS characters though, big tables are way too common.

Liberty's Edge

0gre wrote:

My favorite domains:

Travel - ignoring difficult terrain, dimension hop, faster base movement, all great abilities.
Liberation - Freedom of movement is awesome! Also the 8th level power lets your allies ignore some of the more common nasty conditions in the game.
Glory (and Heroism!) - The first level power works well with intimidate or diplomacy, it's a +Level bonus to a charisma based bonus and you have an hour to use it. With Heroism, at 8th level you can give everyone in your party heroism for rounds per level which is also pretty great.

Lots more are fun... I've been thinking of building a cleric so riffling through them quite a bit. I also like feather a lot for the same reasons you do. But personally, I've sworn off Animal Companions and Eidolons for my PFS characters though, big tables are way too common.

Those are certainly some of the heavier hitters in the domain list, although Heroism also suffers from being a swift action. I'd probably take Travel before Liberation, myself, because it will come in handy more frequently and a lot of the movement-impeding stuff involves saving throws, which the inquisitor is good at. Reading the domain power description, I'm not sure if it actually frees you from grapples or not.

For your cleric, I wouldn't discount the Plant domain. I know it sounds a little weird, but the Plant domain really expands the spell list of the cleric and gives the class capabilities that it didn't have before. The cleric's terrain control is pretty lackluster, and there isn't a reliable long-term AC buff in the cleric class (something capable of lasting many combats), and to those ends there's entangle, wall of thorns, and barkskin. Just find another domain with strong 3rd and 4th level spells. Repel Wood at 6 is also a winner, because EVERYBODY carries wood with them. It's not so much a domain you pick for its granted powers, but for the spells. It's just a shame that the growth subdomain gives up wall of thorns at 5, as that's a pretty crazy spell.


If you wanted to go with an Iomedaean there's a feat that allows you to select fighter only feats for the longsword. Not sure if it's on the PFS list. It's from The Sixfold Trial.

Iomedaean Sword Oath

Shadow Lodge

Yeah, swift actions are a bit scarce with the inquisitor. That said, you get three judgments per day at 9th level and four at 10th, you can use the other judgments for the easier melees and treat the domain power as a sort of super judgment for the whole party in the bigger fights. The is likely going to be far more effective and action in a big fight than your single character judgment. In the longer slugfests you can get bane, heroism, and your judgment all once.

Edit: I just noticed you list Outflank as your third level inquisitor feat. I believe that requires +4 BAB.

Grand Lodge

Taking one of the terrain domains to get channel, then taking channel smite and guided hand will allow you to use your wisdom more effectively. You will no longer need a high strength, and decrease your MAD.

Liberty's Edge

Are there any inquisitor archetypes out there that are worth it?

From what I've seen, they all give up stuff that's more valuable than what they get in return.

Shadow Lodge

Actually, I think all the inquisitor archetypes in Ultimate Magic are solid. They just do rather specific things which may or may not play into your character concept.

Well then again, I can't see ever using Exorcist.

Infiltrator would make a good party face. Particularly if you took the Glory domain :D

Preacher is a decent choice if you don't like the teamwork feats. I'm a huge fan of rerolls and being able to choose whether you use the ability after the roll is done is great. It reduces your chances of wasting your bane ability significantly. If you are making a ranged weapon based inquisitor preacher is probably better since the best teamwork feats require flanking.


Spellbreaker is sort of okay-ish if you're playing a ranged inquisitor (in which case losing the teamwork feats is less of a penalty), but it's straight nuts for any character taking just a few levels of Inquisitor, since you get the big impact feature right at level 1, fully scaled.


I'm doing the exact same thing right now.

I like the Witch Hunter archetype, especially in PFS where you don't need to discern lies often and you go up against a lot of enemies with class levels and spells to identify.

I personally like Travel the best, but the Luck domain is also very good.

As for inquisitions, they're not allowed in Society.


Witch hunter is awesome. Keep spellcraft maxed and you have a free scaling bonus to saves vs enemy spells.

I made A dwarf with Hardy and glory of old. +5 vs spells at level 1.
Add witchunter and a max spellcraft and you basically autopass spell saves.
Dwarf is not bad either.

I took Rage subdomain with Reckless abandon and witchunter as my domain powers.


dotting


Make an Inquisitor of Shelyn! The crunch works pretty well but more importantly she is the diety least likely to have inquisitors. You can be on a quest to annihilate people with bad taste. That's the kind of over-the-top RP that can actually come across in a PFS game.

Her favored weapon is the Glaive and a reach weapon will let you avoid AoOs and each ally will give you 2 or 3 squares you can flank from and make use of those teamwork feats.

Shelyn gives the excellent Luck domain, too. I think you'll be fine without your own flank buddy, our PFS tables are always overflowing.

Grand Lodge

What about Eligos as your god? His favored weapon is a lance, and with an animal companion, mounted combat is your ticket to big DPR. There is Folca for the net, which with the net feats is a viable melee option.


Half orc. Rage inquisition. Rage advances as a barbarian -3.
Take the Amplify Rage teamwork feat form Orcs of Golarion. Due to the solo tactics Inquisitor class feature, when you rage this will give you +4 on top of your normal bonus to STR and CON for raging.
Activate judgements, rage. Rinse repeat.


Doesn't work you still need a raging ally.


You count as an ally.


No you don't. Solo tactics lets you benefit as though your allies have the feat even when they don't, but they still have to be performing the correct actions. You don't count as your own ally for purposes of "your ally must be doing X" for teamwork feats; otherwise a large number of them would work for any character who took them even if nobody else did. (Escape Routes, for instance, would become "you never provoke attacks of opportunity for moving.")

Liberty's Edge

Even if it did count as them having the feat, I think the ally also needs to be half-orc or orc and be raging as well.

So if you regularly adventured with a raging half-orc barbarian, then it would work, because it works as if they have the feat: But it doesn't automatically satisfy every other prerequisite for the bonus.

As a bonus to people who play PFS, only the inquisitions in ultimate combat are disallowed. Ultimate Magic's inquisitions are still good. I'll post the updated build of what I'm looking at here in a bit. As has been noted, my teamwork feats are in the wrong order.

I like the idea of the lance proficiency for free, but I already play a mounted halfling paladin and it's a TON of fun. I just don't want to play the same character again.

**Addendum**

On the luck domain: It's a fantastic domain, but I don't think it's near as good of a fit for an inquisitor as it is a casting cleric. For one, the inquisitor will probably want to spend his standard actions hitting things, which makes the "Bit of Luck" ability a difficult one to use. A cleric who focuses on wisdom over strength, though, can use the bit of luck to enhance the attacks of someone who's much better in melee than he is. Also, a cleric is likely going to roll many less d20s per day than an inquisitor does, meaning that the one reroll represents a much larger fraction of that character's total chance-based effectiveness.

So it's certainly a good domain, but I think that its reputation which has been earned by use with clerics has been transferred to the inquisitor a bit erroneously. It's still a good domain, but the inquisitor benefits more from stuff that buffs its combat ability, being a damage-dealer first and a spellcaster second.

Liberty's Edge

Alright, another post because I've got a question along a different line from the post above:

Traits for the inquisitor. Suggestions?

I'm considering Adopted for Glory of Old, the dwarf trait that grants +1 to saves against spells, spell-like abilities, and poison. That might as well be a +1 bonus to all saving throws. Half-Elf adopted by dwarves, or half-elf/half-dwarf?

I'm also looking at Dirty Fighter, +1 bonus when flanking. Given that many of the inquisitor's teamwork feats work best when flanking an enemy, he's already got motivation to get into flank. Might as well tack on another damage point.

Then there's Lessons of Chaldira, a trait that lets you reroll one saving throw every day AFTER you know you've failed it. That speaks for itself, really. It just becomes complicated when selecting domains, and I think having a good domain/inquisition is preferable to getting one reroll per day.

And THEN there's fencer, which gives a bonus on attacks of opportunity with "similar bladed weapons" to daggers and swords. Do you think a fauchard fits that description? This character will have a reach weapon and combat reflexes, so hopefully will be making a lot of AoOs.

Skill-gaining traits are pretty useless to this inquisitor, who already has his skill points basically allotted. At this point, I think I'd prefer offense over defense in trait selection because of the inquisitor's solid saving throw base and the eventual Stalwart ability. It's a solid class.

So, other good traits for a melee character? Any traits listed above you particularly like or don't like?


Ah, I see. The entry banning Inquisitions in UC is oddly phrased. I assumed they were all in there.

I sort of agree with you on Touch of Luck, but I do think it's better than Touch of Glory unless you're taking Dazzling Display (although Blistering Invective would be a decent and cheaper method.) Aura of Heroism is fantastic but on the other hand it costs a swift action. In my experience the reroll mostly gets used on saving throws or CL checks, which I think balances out between a cleric and an inquisitor.

I think it compares favorably with Liberation, too. Liberation is solely defensive. Giving somebody a reroll to escape a grab isn't as good as just springing them, but the ability is much broader in its use.

(I still think Travel is the best. My Inquisitor is of CC.)

Sadly you can't get lance for free, the gods he mentioned are minor demigods and not legal for PFS. There is however an Empyrial Lord (Ragathiel) who has the Bastard Sword with OK domains and the Eldest fey Maghd who has the scythe and Luck. None of the demigods would appear to give access to subdomains. I really wish the Lovecraftian Outer Gods were legal for PFS.

EDIT: Moar
Lessons of Chaldira is amazing and I didn't know about it but you have to be devoted to Chaldira Zuzaristan, who has only Good, Trickery and War with the Short Sword. Trickery's Mirror Image ability isn't bad for Clerics but I can't see you getting a ton of use out of it.

If you want to do party face duties Illuminator(Sarenrae) gives +2(!) to Diplomacy along with Heroism and scimitars.

If you take a high-threat weapon Anatomist (+1 to confirm) might be good.

The Expert Duelist and Unorthodox Strategy factions traits are nice defensively. The latter is Silver Crusade and gives +2 to Acrobatics while avoiding AoOs. Tumbling is something I personally do a lot of.

So I just looked up the fouchard and wow, that's a great reason to play a half-elf. I say drop Feather for Travel. You'll can use the speed to just walk around threatened areas and won't have to clutter the table with yet another mini. Booned Companions are super-awesome but PFS gets so crowded sometimes.

It's not quite as bad as a Master Summoner bringing in 1d3+1 riding dogs each round, but I was mostly just doing that to be a dick.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah, Travel is that domain that's always on the power list. I play a dwarf cleric and, with extended longstrider (via rod), he moves at 40/round all day in full plate.

I've stopped considering feather a while ago, actually, because the perception bonus doesn't stack with Keen Senses that EVERY RACE IN THE GAME seems to get. And also because of the reason you listed: I've played at a table of 7 with a summoner/eidolon duo before and that was not an experience I'd care to repeat. (And it frees up a feat at 5 that would have been boon companion.)

The other feature I'm leaning towards right now is the Anger inquisition. The ability to rage is almost worth dipping into another class for a melee type, and getting it "For Free" is very nice. Travel could also be mostly approximated with a relatively cheap pair of boots - admittedly later than level 1, though. The +2 to hit and +3 to damage from rage, though, stacks with just about everything else in the game. Plus, it's a free action.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Help with a melee inquisitor! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.