Rules Question - Adding up bonuses for Overhand Chop, Raging, and 2H weapon


Rules Questions


I can't find anything other than "opinions" based on this question, perhaps my google-fu is weak.

The problem I'm running into deals with the Overhand Chop/Backswing 2H Fighter Archetype powers and whether the 2x strength takes over for the 1.5x 2H weapon strength multiplier on attacks, or if they are cumulative. I see no errata and it could be read either way. When looking at the descriptions of both of those powers, neither says that the 2H weapon's 1.5x strength multiplier is replaced, but both 2H weapon fighter powers say, "he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls..."

Please correct me if I'm wrong in my assumptions below.

Information:
STR 20 = (+5)
Raging bumps to STR 24 = (+7)
Power Attack = +6 at BAB of 5 [edited from +4, my bad]
Weapon Bonus = +1
Weapon used = Falchion 2d4 (18-20 crit)

Assumption of the Overhand Chop (OC) = 2 x STR bonus and it taking over the 1.5 multiplier of a normal 2H weapon being wielded on attacks...

*Normal OC non-raging = 5 STR bonus * 2 OC multiplier = +10 damage
*OC with Raging = 7 STR bonus * 2 OC multiplier = +14 damage

So what I come up with non-raging and using my power attack:
2d4 + (10 OC) + (6 PA) + (1 WB) = 2d4 + 17
---> On a crit 4d4 +34

Raging:
2d4 + (14 OC) + (6 PA) + (1 WB) = 2d4 + 21
---> On a crit 4d4 + 42

OR does this add into the fact that you already get the 1.5x multiplier and then it goes up even more?

Assumption if strength is CUMULATIVE with the 2H weapon 1.5x strength:

STR 20 = (+5) * (1.5) ---> (+7) * (2) = (14)

Raging 24 = (+7) * (1.5) ---> (+10) * (2) = (20)

Doing a CUMULATIVE Strength OC:

Non-Raging:

2d4 + (14)+(6)+(1) = 2d4 + 21
---> 4d4 + 42 on a crit

Raging:

2d4 + (20)+(6)+(1) = 2d4 + 27
---> 4d4 + 54 on a crit


Your first set of assumptions is correct for the Overhand Chop for STR. Instead of 1.5x STR damage for a 2 handed weapon, you get 2x STR damage. Not 3x STR damage, which is what combining them is giving you.

FYI, your power attack number is off. Power attack with a 2 handed weapon would be +6 damage at 5 BAB.


Oops, I knew that +6 on PA instead of +4.

Is there any errata or information on the 1.5x STR being replaced by the 2x STR on those powers anywhere? I just want to make sure it's 100% correct when I start to use it.


ub3r_n3rd wrote:
I can't find anything other than "opinions" based on this question

Will you accept the opinion of the guy who wrote it?

It says what it does and does what it says.

You add double your STR bonus. Whatever your STR bonus is, you double it.

Normally when you attack with a two-handed weapon, you add 1.5 x your STR bonus. Your STR bonus itself doesn't change. The relevant text is on p. 141 of the core rules: "Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a [two-handed] weapon."

If you have 18 STR, your STR bonus is +4.

For a typical character, they add their STR bonus to damage, which is +4, AND they add +50% for wielding a TH weapon, for an extra +2.

For an overhand chopper, they add their STR bonus to damage, which is still +4, and they double it when making a single attack in a round with a TH weapon, for an extra +4.

Their doubling supersedes the normal +50%.

And yes, it was specifically written to NOT be a standard action so that it would usable in conjunction with Vital Strike, Deadly Stroke, charge attacks, etc. where you make only a single attack in a round.

And two posts later noted for errata by SKR.


Thanks for answering the question!

I like knowing instead of guessing on things like this and the guy who contributed and knows the intention of the power is definitely close enough to RAW for me even if the wording leaves it a bit vague as to how to apply it.

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