Most people also don't try to buy every item they(Paizo) have. They get what might be interesting. If they are on a budget, they might only buy the pdf version of an item.
PS:I am not saying you are trying to buy "every thing", but you seem to be buying more things than most people I know.
The APs are pretty cool going all the way back. But they're also totally optional. The only one making the cost off-putting is yourself. Slow down. Relax. Buy what you can afford. Skip the rest for now.
And if they're out of print, consider the PDF versions. There's no scarcity on them so the price won't go up nor will they ever run out. Buy them when it makes sense to do so.
This is a major problem of every established RPG - the cost to catch up.
The nice thing about the Paizo books is that all of the rules are available for free online with the PFSRD.
As to "catching up", I recommend not trying. As Bill Dunn says above, buy what you need (or can afford) now and skip the rest. If you come across disposable income later (and you're still interested), buy it then.
As for the maps and tiles, skip them for now. They are an enhancement, but definitely not needed (as they each have very limited use). Instead, buy a good battlemat (if you don't already have one) and then draw what you need to.
I would like someone from Paizo management tell me why the costs are so high and why things like to mini-maps and Gamemastery cards are so darned expensive and why we can't buy then in bundles or packs so it won't be so expensive to catch up.
Vic Wertz, Paizo technical director and co-owner, replying to the bolded portion of your question, from here:
Personally I would mind the option of spending $79.95 - $99.95 for a complete adventure path set in hardcover. Probably would be about as thick as the PFRPG core rules though.Offering a collected volume of each AP would be encouraging people *not* to buy volumes as they come out. If there's one thing you should take away from everything I've said in this thread, it's that that's a *very* bad strategy for us.
Also, your proposed price point would pretty much ensure that nobody bought it any other way, because the six volumes cost $119.94 as separate volumes ($83.94 for subscribers). Quite seriously, if we offered a product like you describe, we'd go out of business.
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This an expensive hobby. Not as expensive as some other hobbies yet it's one where your required to spend a certain amount of money. It's something that will never change. So telling a company "make your product cheaper because I can't afford it" is going to get you the response of "no one forcing yout to buy anything or everything". At worst if buying books in print is making a huge dent in your bank account switch to more PDf pruchases. No one who owns a business is going to take a loss because a segment of their customer base can;t afford their product. That a recipe for bankruptcy imo.
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I feel your pain, OP; I started about a year and a half ago. I have managed to get all the APS and a great deal of the older related material. For me, there were a few ways I picked up the older material (in addition to buying them normally):
1) Paizo Sales. Especially the Black Friday sale- they have in the past sold older APs at a discount bundled with cards and map. They're terrific deals. So, keep an eye out for those types of sales on the site. You can't rely on the AP you want coming out that way, though- it (of course) is at least partly dependent on what they have in their stock. If you haven't, subscribe to the newsletter- it will mention those sales prominently. They also occasionally offer coupons for store sales during the holidays, another good time to pick up missing pieces for your collection.
2) FLGS sales. At least one of our local businesses has an annual inventory-reduction sale that's been handy.
3) Ebay/Amazon Marketplace. This one's tougher, because you have to watch/bid/etc., and stuff often goes for a lot. Patience helps.
And ongoing, the AP subscription is a great deal. Not only do you get the APs as they come out, but you get subscriber discounts on other materials you buy from the store, which might even stack with those other discounts mentioned above.
Welcome to the game!
As others have said, "catching up" is pricey, and probably not the right goal. Keep in mind that you can have a lot of fun with just Core Rulebook and Bestiary and maybe a battlemat.
Personally, I've bought almost none of the campaign setting / chronicles books, or gamemastery stuff. My homebrew pathfinder campaign is run with campaign setting material picked up from past editions of D&D.
Since you're new to the game, the adventure paths might be a good starting point to run a full campaign -- but it's also reasonable to ask your players to chip in for one book apiece out of the AP, to spread around the cost of the game.
Overall, though, slow and steady is the name of the game -- use the stuff you have, wish list the stuff you want, and keep in mind that this is a hobby that can keep you busy for decades, and you'll have plenty of chances to pick up additional product as you go along.
I've got the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, a bestiary, and a few old Monster Manuals and 3/5 books. My game's good to go!
The cost of catching up is always expensive, regardless of the hobby. There are ways to minimize the problem though. There are plenty of sites that sell used products. Paizo has sales periodically. I have seen barter sites so you can trade for the books. You could check garage sales. The PRD is free so you can use that for quite a bit until you can acquire the actual book. I'm doing this for Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, and the Bestiary 3. You can buy only what you need.
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Actually, it's very cheap hobby. You can buy the Core Rulebook and play forever with no other investment except some paper and dice. Actually you could just buy the PDF or even just use the SRD and play nearly for free.
I did say it was less expensive than other hobbies. If all you do is buy the the PF core book and bestirary and some dice it's not expensive. Relativelly speaking of course because that is already a 160-180$ purchase. I have all the Paizo harcovers and a few APs with other sourcebooks. At least 400-500$ investment. So while it's not expensive it's not as cheap as people make it out ot be. Money is still spent.
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I'd also like to take this opportunity and demand a pony from Paizo staff. Preferably, Applejack.
Rainbow Dash is the best pony you philistine.
Also, as mentioned by TOX, Paizo is purposefully dodging the "waiting for the trades" bullet that took the comics industry in the knee.
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It's a ways off, but there is usually at least a couple 'super bundles' come Black Friday. The Super Bundles usually have full APs plus some supporting books.
There are two things going on here.
Paizo is a reseller and a wholesaler. If Paizo starts discounting products on their resale side too much their wholesale business may very well suffer. Paizo recognizes that having their products in game shops is important and undercutting the pricing the game shops will endanger their relationship with the shops.
The second thing is Paizo's products are supported primarily by subscription revenue. The 'long tail' shoppers like you who come along well after a product has been released are nice, but the primary profits and more important the financing for products comes from subscription sales. If Paizo started discounting older products it would effectively discourage subscriptions.
My suggestion is if you want to get a bundle discount is to go to your local game shop and talk to the owner. There is a fair chance if you prepay they will make a big order for you and give you a pretty solid discount for going through them. There are also a lot of other places where you can get discounted Paizo merchandise on the web.
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DeAnna at Hieroglyphs Books is incredibly friendly, and she sells stuff below cover price. If I wasn't a subscriber, I'd get everything through her. In fact, that's what I did before I subscribed. She puts most of my LGS (notice no F) to shame.
Well, if you want all the open source material there's always the
http://www.d20pfsrd.com (Crunch)
and http://www.pathfinderwiki.com (Fluff)
for access to some things that you cannot at the moment afford
You don't necessarily need to buy everything out there to play and enjoy the game.
I'm a DM, and I always felt that it was my responsibility to have everything, or as much of everything I could get.
Well, I got back into rpgs with Serpent's Skull, and I also went through a 'buy up' phase - not because I was DM and owed it to my players (although I was), but because I wanted to have all this cool stuff that both allowed me to play the game to its fullest extent, and also clued me up on Golarion. Yeah, it was expensive, and I had to decide what to get and what not to get. I subscribed to the AP line, and determined to pick and choose among the older ones, together with selected modules. I bought a couple of the Players Companions, decided they were too lightweight and not worth it (sorry), and went hell for leather on the Campaign Setting material – which was awesome – and all the hardbacks.
However, at the end of the day what I bought was MY choice, and therefore my responsibility to finance. I sold a lot of old 1st and 2nd edition material, though that was a tough call, and made a list of things to get as and when I could afford them. Now I’ve got plenty, together with selected items from 3PP (Frog God, I’m looking at you). But at no point did I think – hey, it’s Paizo’s responsibility to retail this at a price I can afford. As others here have pointed out, there’s a heck of a lot more in this hobby that comes free or cheap than most other hobbies. I really, really wanted the pre painted miniatures line, but simply couldn’t justify the cost of the case. That’s my problem, not Paizo’s – I’ll pick up what I can, when I can, and meanwhile look forward to purchasing the awesome products I can afford. No way do I want this company to compromise on quality by offering goods at knock down prices.
There’s usually a way, if you come up with a plan. Buy the pdfs, see if you’ve got anything else you can sell off, use the Wiki. But, really – you *don’t* owe your players every product under the sun. Why would you? I can’t possibly use more than a small amount of all the rpg stuff I’ve ever got, I just love reading it myself.
I had a great time using just the PDF of the rules for a year, before I bought a single other thing.
Make up your own stories, no one is going to come by and tell you you are 'doing it wrong'.
Yes, it is NOT your responsibility to buy everything. Just buy what you want and set up your campaign around what you own. There's a limited amount of splat for PF, so the players probably won't be bringing tons of rules around you don't own. And if they do, most of the rules stuff is available in the SRD.
I started running with the Pathfinder beta and an 3.0 monster manual.
They're lying! Buy everything! Better yet, buy three copies, just in case!
Seriously, though--everyone here is correct, both in their reasoning and in their strategies for dealing with the sheer volume of product. We've always maintained that you actually need very few of our books in order to play the game. But if you're enticed enough that you want to buy more, even though you don't actually *need* them... well, then we're doing our jobs. :)
I'm a DM, and I always felt that it was my responsibility to have everything, or as much of everything I could get.
out of curiosity, why?
I had to cancel my subscriptions because I couldn't use the material I already had piling up.
:(
I just like reading it, but even at that, I can't keep up with just *reading* it all. So I skim and cherry pick.
However, I do have to admit that keeping up with a supersub is not an inexpensive endeavor. It's expensive enough that it's in the "this has to be the only hobby you spend money on" category.
Well, that and beer :)
DeAnna at Hieroglyphs Books is incredibly friendly, and she sells stuff below cover price. If I wasn't a subscriber, I'd get everything through her. In fact, that's what I did before I subscribed. She puts most of my LGS (notice no F) to shame.
It's definitely true that you can get all the materials cheaper than at Paizo, especially via the used market or via Amazon. But then you don't get the PDFs (and I use those more than I use the physical copies).
out of curiosity, why?I'm a DM, and I always felt that it was my responsibility to have everything, or as much of everything I could get.
For me, it's because then I can take a look at whatever scammy combo a player comes up with later and think about it, rather than having to make a snap decision during a game with only the player's copy to work from.
Plus, I'm a bit of a completist. And in addition, a statement like "you can use any material from any Paizo published book" is something I can back up with a copy of the actual book.
I did the same thing for my 3.5e campaign. The rule was they players could use any WoTC published book that I owned. I actually ended up getting a couple books that way (Magic of Eberron was one, I believe) because a player wanted to use a prestige class from that book.
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out of curiosity, why?I'm a DM, and I always felt that it was my responsibility to have everything, or as much of everything I could get.
+1
I'm in much the same situation - getting back into gaming after a break, and deciding that Pathfinder is the system I want to use. But there's no way I'd consider buying everything Paizo have ever produced (sorry, guys!). I started off with hardcovers of the Core Rulebook and the Advanced Players's Guide, and a few months later added Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, and the Inner Sea World Guide. That's enough to play almost anything at conventions, local game stores, etc. (I'm still wondering about the Advanced Race Guide).
I do plan to get back into acting as GM, so I've signed up for the Adventure Path subscription, and the GameMastery line. I also intend to pick up several other things (most notably the Bestiaries) as PDFs. But as far as the old APs, modules, etc. go I'll definitely get the Hardcover RotRL Anniversary Edition. Beyond that (and a few other incidentals from various other product lines) to round out the collection I'm done for now.
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I just like reading it, but even at that, I can't keep up with just *reading* it all. So I skim and cherry pick.
I enjoyed it for the first few, but once I got about two paths behind on the reading, I decided I needed to stop piling them up.
I may end up selling my PF stuff to free up shelf space. If I want to run something, the PDFs will do just fine. And Golarion, while nice, isn't really my setting.
However, I do have to admit that keeping up with a supersub is not an inexpensive endeavor. It's expensive enough that it's in the "this has to be the only hobby you spend money on" category.
Well, that and beer :)
Sorry, ya lost me there. :)
I feel your pain OP. I got into Golarion last year, and found out that the APs contain some fluff I wanted to get. The articles on the gods comes to mind here. Kinda disheartening to pick up a book, only to find that the capital city of said region is detailed in the AP and not the sourcebook.
Two copies of the Core Rulebook isn't a bad idea for when the spine inevitably fails...They're lying! Buy everything! Better yet, buy three copies, just in case!
** spoiler omitted **
Two copies of the CRB isn't a bad idea when you are the only one at the table who has got it. I've just started running a game with some friends who have never played much in the way of PnP before, and I just started to pick up PF stuff at Christmas. So far I've grabbed the CRB and the Beginner Box, (and some minis, and some cards, and a module). Even with 2 laptops going character creation was a little tedious with only one book.
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Well, that and beer :)Sorry, ya lost me there. :)
No beer? You poor, poor man.
...
*raises the wine glass* A toast, to individual choice. :)
Oh! Then by all means we shall need to share a splendid bottle or red (or white, I'm not particular) when I finally do make it out to PaizoCon!
...
What's even better is that it was a Christmas present from one of my kids. Clearly I have raised them well :)
Two copies of the CRB isn't a bad idea when you are the only one at the table who has got it. I've just started running a game with some friends who have never played much in the way of PnP before, and I just started to pick up PF stuff at Christmas. So far I've grabbed the CRB and the Beginner Box, (and some minis, and some cards, and a module). Even with 2 laptops going character creation was a little tedious with only one book.Two copies of the Core Rulebook isn't a bad idea for when the spine inevitably fails...They're lying! Buy everything! Better yet, buy three copies, just in case!
** spoiler omitted **
I bought a copy of the Core when it was new, just to say I had it, and promptly stuck it on the shelf. I then downloaded the PDF, which I use constantly. Then, that Christmas, after telling all my players that we were switching to Pathfinder, I sent out $9.99 gift certificates, and everybody at the table was able to have a Core book for less than $100 total group price. And the best part is, nobody's book spines are failing!
I'm partial to whites, but I do enjoy a good red sangria.
Sold! Now to get an actual tax rebate one of these years so I can afford PaizoCon :)
Ugh, tell me about it. After the price of travel to PaizoCon, I'm scratching any plans of GenCon this year.
Yeah.
I won't even be able to make Origins this year, even though I have free room and board and it's driveable ... still ends up costing me a whole pile for food, admission, and the usual crap.