Partially inspired by OotS, I've decided that I want to create a rival party for my players to go up against throughout the campaign. Here are the PCs and the enemy party that I am currently planning (subject to change, obviously):
The PCs
Spoiler:
N Human Druid 3: Weather domain, no archetypes, focusing on spells over combat- sort of an optimizer, good role-player (but bland character). Alright in combat as of now, although later he'll control all of nature, so that's ok.
CG Human Rogue 2/Ranger 1: Just switched to ranger from rogue after deciding rogue was too weak. Took weapon finesse as a talent, has dodge, rapid shot, point-blank shot feats. Not really an optimizer, but very good role-player. Is still rather effective in combat so far despite unfortunate multi-classing.
CG Sylph Sorcerer 3: Djinn Bloodline, focusing on blasting with some control. Choosing mostly non-electricity spells so that he has more variety with the Djinn arcana. Poopy role-player, but an optimizer. He just joined the party, but he seems effective. He wants to a lot of counter spelling, which I am super-cool with.
CG Elf Cleric 3: Homebrew elf goddes, Nobility and Magic (Divine) Domains. Healer and buffer almost exclusively, role plays his character well and is useful in combat.
CG Elf Magus 3: Bladebound archetype. Slices and dices with magical spices, is very effective in combat when he remembers all his class features. Good role-player, too.
N Hobbit (not halfling when I'm DM) Cavalier 3: Order of the Dragon, wolf mount but will probably switch at level 4 to something that stays medium sized. Deals huge damage in combat with his charges. Also usually the first to engage considering his speed.
And the planned rivals, planned to encounter when everyone levels up
Spoiler:
LE Hobgoblin Fighter 4: Archer archetype. Typical archer feats.
NE Elf Wizard 4: Evoker. Blaster obviously, planning on going metamagic heavy. Has a pig familiar because pig. May switch to witch. Will retain pig.
LE Duergar Cleric 4: War (Tactics) and Artifice (Toil) domains. Planning on being a versatile caster with a slight control focus.
NE Dhampir Bard 4: Arcane Duelist. Lots of enchantment spells.
LE Kobold Alchemist 4: Infusion, spontaneous healing discoveries. Buffer and bomber.
CE Human Antipaladin 4: Big scary warrior. Lots of intimidation and fear spells, using heavy shield and tridents to counter the cavalier.
I want this party to be a recurring threat. I don't want either party to get completely wiped out by the other, but I'll always be willing to accept a death or two in each battle if that's what it takes. My players are ok with the idea that death is a very real possibility and resurrection magic is hard to come by.
So how do these two parties match up, power wise? I generally wanted to have each PC to have an opposite, although it was a little tough to come up with a satisfying one for the Druid.
Ranger - Fighter
Sorcerer - Wizard (or Witch)
Magus - Bard
Cavalier - Antipaladin
Cleric - Cleric
Druid - Alchemist (I know it's a stretch, but I didn't want any class repeats other than the clerics and I didn't want to use an oracle because it's too close to cleric. So this will be mostly a RPing thing, if all goes as planned)
How do I stop the PCs from just slaughtering the rivals if they gain the upper hand, and how do I excuse the rivals for not killing all the PCs when they gain the upper hand?
Role playing and balance advice, please.
Instead of a Fighter being a replacement for the Ranger, why not try a Monk, and go with a Fighter for the replacement for the Cavalier. That way, you are not having to worry about the whole CE "Abandon everyone" scenario. And if you ask why Monk, Reflect Arrow will make the Ranger feel useless against them, but will still be able to throw weapons at the party.
Instead of the Alchemist, go with a Ninja. That way, if all else fails, the Ninja can tell everyone to leave and to "prepare yourselves, we'll be back."
What sort of reason will the party be joining together? This other party could be like a Pokemon Rival moment(Childhood friends) or it could be a Boba Fett moment(polar opposites). Also include that the other party could eventually help out the PCs, saying something along the lines of "Just this once." Remember that if you can't think of something original, disguise something that the PCs wouldn't recognize.
I'm not quite sure on why they're joining up yet. I'm gonna write a backstory for each of them and I'll make it work. And I definitely think I agree with you on the Antipaladin abandonment issue. How about a zen archer for the monk? I want the ranger's opposite to still be an archer, and I strongly considered that specifically but eventually went with fighter.
I plan on them meeting the party and them pretending to be another good adventuring party. They're shtick will be that they were all abandoned or cast out of their evil societies and they seek redemption. In reality, they're just a group of like-minded evil bastards. maybe some of them could be related. I'll make it make sense for them to be adventuring together.
I just thought of a better way of getting a good opposite for the Druid. Why not try an Oracle of Nature. They get an animal Companion just like the druid, add their CHA bonus to AC as well as DEX, and use some serious cure spells. If you need an RP reason, make him the leader. High CHA means that he got this rag-tag group of Evil-doers together, and he could also be the voice of reason. LE is easier to RP than NE or CE, because it means that even if you don't do good, you are still loyal to your employer.You could also go with an Oracle of Bones. If any of the enemy party die, the Oracle can bring them back. Dead Monk? No problem.
That was my initial thought for a druid rival. But then I feel like I should do something else with the duergar cleric. I'm a little reluctant to have two full casters with the same spell list, I need variety. How about a witch instead of an oracle? I think that thematically, a witch could be good opposition for a druid.
New thought, mostly new rival party, with opposites:
Zen Archer (Human)- Ranger
Witch (Human) - Druid
Wizard (Elf)- Sorcerer
Oracle (Drow) - Cleric
Bard (Dhampir)- Magus
Fighter (Duergar)- Cavalier
I lose the hobgoblin, which kind off sucks, but they have another place in the campaign anyways so it's cool. This party also has no repeats with the PCs.
I think that the witch is more like a replacement for if the Wizard bites the dust. Rather, go with a Summoner (Gasp!) instead of the Witch. Go plain Summoner, so that you don't kill every PC. The Eidolon would get the evolution Undead Appearance, making it undead. Positive would damage it, while Negative would heal it. It being a skeleton/zombie means that it could have any flavor that you want for RP reasons. It also is an extra fighter, and could be a nice "Hold them off while we escape!" If you do this, keep in mind that Rejuvinate Eidolon and all its variants would hurt it.
If you want them to harass the party for a while and generally have some good tension between then without the party wiping out their rivals (or vice versa), then have you considered them as rivals in the non-combat sense for a while?
Start them out now as competition for the party, other adventurers in the area competing for glory, contracts, adventuring sites, and so forth. As the party gets up in levels have their rivalry with the other party get more hostile. Eventually build it up into something violent.
Generally speaking d20 combat doesn't lend itself well to reoccurring villains of equal strength.
I've done this. If nothing else this will force you to learn quite a bit about the intricacies of many different classes.
If your experience is anything like mine here are some things you should prepare for:
A single person preparing and coordinating tactics can be surprisingly more powerful than a group of people who are all doing their own thing. The first time I put my own party against the PC party it was a total rout. Not by design, just because my NPC party had a plan, had tactics, synergized their powers and coordinated their attacks.
PC classes are generally more capable than "equivalent" monsters. Especially if you build them as if they were player characters. After a while I got a bit overwhelmed with creating new NPC members of the party because each effort was a full character creation effort coupled with all my other GM prep. I eventually developed a scaled-down approach to creating the NPC characters. 4e does this by having "monster" versions of player classes with very limited powers and a totally different mechanic to run them.
If you truly keep the parties equivalent in power, if the PC party ever wipes out the NPC party, they will essentially double their wealth.
It can be fun to play with relationships between the parties...
I've done this. It can be great fun, but it's trickier than it looks.
1) Try to postpone a straight-up fight between the parties. If the NPCs win, you probably get PC deaths; if the PCs win, they double their wealth (and the NPCs don't seem like a threat any more). As Peter points out, d20 doesn't lend itself to recurring combats with opponents of equal strength.
You can do this a couple of different ways. One is to not have them be obvious antagonists right away. (Remember, the Linear Guild and the OOTS were allies at first.)
Another is to have one or two PCs meet their rivals first -- the PC Cavalier meets the duergar fighter one-on-one in a bar fight or something. This has the drawback that you have to run one or two PCs on a side adventure for a bit. OTOH, it lets you balance things nicely -- if the PC is winning, have another NPC drop in. It also allows you to mix in a range of relations beyond simple antagonism. (The cavalier hates the duergar, but has a flirtation going with the NPC witch.)
2) If you do end up in straight combat, give each party an out. PCs can sometimes be very stubborn about running away, so if they lose, let the villains capture them, gloat, and then foolishly allow a chance to escape. If the PCs might win, give at least some of the NPCs an escape route. (Remember, the Linear Guild only had three core members.)
I've done this. If nothing else this will force you to learn quite a bit about the intricacies of many different classes.
+1. This is a great way to learn this. And 3rd level is a good time -- you have options, but it's not crazy complicated. (I tried putting together a party of 10th level NPC bad guys a few months back. I did it but, phew, some work.)
Adamantine Dragon wrote:
A single person preparing and coordinating tactics can be surprisingly more powerful than a group of people who are all doing their own thing. The first time I put my own party against the PC party it was a total rout. Not by design, just because my NPC party had a plan, had tactics, synergized their powers and coordinated their attacks.
Yes and no. Yes, if you think ahead, plan ahead, and synergize your NPCs they can probably take the PCs apart. But OTOH, once combat begins it will be six brains against yours -- and I can almost promise the PCs will come up with at least one surprise. You could say the default is that you have the strategic advantage, while the players have the tactical advantage.
Also: consider having one NPC (maybe the elf wizard?) be a super high Int evil mastermind type. Let the PCs see him take down an opponent or two by using brains rather than spells or brawn -- maybe during the introductory period when they're not yet antagonists. Establish that he's a planner who studies his opponents in advance. This will give you a firm foundation for countering the PCs tactics later on. "He counterspelled me?" "Sure. Remember how he took out the otyugh? Looks like he's been studying you the same way..."
I think you could easily have a party wipeout if you are not careful.
Also the first thing that popped into my head as a druid opposite was an oracle of flame. You know one wants to hug the trees, the other wants to burn them.
I guess you have your heart set on the cleric/oracle matchup though.
Yes, a party wipeout is possible. Consider giving the NPCs some nonlethal attacks -- spells like grease and web, stunning fist, trip and disarm attacks, stuff like that. The goal (at least in the first fight) should be to take the PCs down, not kill them.
Also, consider making their APL a bit higher -- if the PCs are all 3rd, maybe have a couple of the NPCs be 4th level. No, not fair, but it will give the PCs something to shoot for.
And give the NPCs some reason to spare the PCs if they beat them -- members of the same organization or church, eager for ransom, out for information, just like to set them free after carving runes of humiliation on their foreheads, whatever. That gives the PCs a real reason for revenge, plus not ending the campaign if the NPCs win one combat.
I like the idea of summoner. I've decided to use a Kobold summoner instead of a witch. I thought about making the wizard a witch but I think a wizard makes a much better evil mastermind flavor-wise. This and possibly the monk's race will be the only changes for the current iteration.
I also really like the idea of meeting before fighting. One or two members of each party meet in a tavern by chance. Later on, both parties meet in the streets. Just for context, the party is currently in a city that is breaking apart due to race riots caused inadvertently by the party.
I'd be happy to stat out an NPC or two for you. Do you have HeroLab or anything similar?
More information would be good. Do you have the PCs character sheets? If not, can you give a short decription? ("The sorceror is red dragon bloodline, very blasty. Loves Burning Hands.")
Do you want the NPC party to be evil? (Are the PCs mostly good?)
Something else to consider (I, too, have run a party of equal size against my group of PC's and it was almost a TPK) is that PC's generally have to deal with multiple encounters per day. An NPC group "typically" doesn't have to and will be able to go full nova on the PC's.
In my case, I had a group of 6 level 8 PC's (25 point buy, WBL over what is recommended) and I put them up against a group of 6 level 7 NPC's (15 point buy, NPC wealth overall). So an APL of 9 and it was a CR 11 encounter. If I hadn't purposely built the NPC's to be a bunch of selfish jackasses (and one of them despised the others so much he bowed out of the combat altogether) they would have easily ripped the PC's apart (via focus fire, coordinating attacks/spells, etc.).
This was the PC's second (of three) encounters of the day. It was the sole encounter for the NPC's, and the NPC's had time to buff up fully while the PC's were otherwise engaged.
Douglas- all the information on the party is in the OP. Alignment, important class features, style, some feats. I don't have HeroLab, I just use an app on my iPad. I can stat them all out, thanks for the offer though. But if you have any ideas I'm all ears.
Dosgamer- I am planning on this being the only encounter for both parties when it does happen. I'm using 20 point buy for both parties. I gave each NPC about 3000 GP worth of gear, because that's about what each PC has, maybe a little less. I'm not making them super optimized but I am keeping it in mind. I'm also focusing on role playing and flavor in the rival's builds.
If you want them to harass the party for a while and generally have some good tension between then without the party wiping out their rivals (or vice versa), then have you considered them as rivals in the non-combat sense for a while?
Start them out now as competition for the party, other adventurers in the area competing for glory, contracts, adventuring sites, and so forth. As the party gets up in levels have their rivalry with the other party get more hostile. Eventually build it up into something violent.
Generally speaking d20 combat doesn't lend itself well to reoccurring villains of equal strength.
This!
Was going to suggest this almost to a T.
Have them show up ahead of the party once or twice and get there after the party a few times on missions. Very Indiana Jones/René Belloq style.
At some point make it important that they work together to survive so that they generate a mutual respect...
Per your last post you want them to have flavor AND some RP value but you also say it's going to be a one-off encounter. These seems exclusive of each other. The characters will never care about the motivations of the "rival" band if it's just a hack and slash encounter. It will just be another bunch of baddies getting chewed up.
-- He's a level ahead because he's the evil mastermind.
Str 8
Con 8
Dex 12
Int 20
Wis 12
Cha 12
Fort +0
Ref +2
Will +5
-- 15 point build. His low hp and weak Fort save are his glass jaw (but he knows this, and plans accordingly). For a 20 point build give him 10 Con and 15 Dex.
AC 15 (+4 mage armor +1 Dex)
12 hp
Attack: He carries a staff, and in theory he could strike at +1 for d6-1 damage, but if things reach that point he's already in serious trouble. Honestly, he has people for that.
Feats: Scribe Scroll, Improved Initiative and Spell Focus (Illusion)
Skills: High Int, and he's spread his skill points around. Max ranks in Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (nature) and then 1 rank each in all the other Knowledge skills. That means +12 on Knowledge (arcana) and (nature) and +9 to all the other Knowledges. Yeah, he's a know-it-all. (The nature thing is for the bug collection -- see below.)
Opposed schools Evocation and Divination
Bound Object (Ring)
-- He wears several rings; his bound object is the plainest and cheapest (though not obviously so). Every few days he casts Magic Aura on it so that it doesn't detect as magic.
Ready spells (normal):
1at -- Burning Disarm, Cause Fear, Charm Person, Color Spray, Grease, Mage Armor
2nd -- Invisibility, Minor Image, Mirror Image, Summon Monster II
He has a very full spellbook (from some combination of judicious scroll purchases and treacherously killing some other wizard). It includes
2nd -- Arcane Lock, Fog Cloud, Fox's Cunning, Glitterdust, Hideous Laughter, Misdirection, Protection from Good/Evil (communal), Web, Whispering Wind
School powers -- Not sure if he's a straight Illusionist (in which case he has that blinding ray thing) or a Shadow guy (in which case he has the entangling shadow thing). The Shadow power is weaker, but cooler. Either way, his Minor Image lasts concentration +4 rounds, meaning he can set it up and let it run.
Stuff -- I haven't equipped him, but for sure he'll have a wand of Mage Armor. Otherwise, I'm sure he'll have at least one other useful wand and a bunch of scrolls. He'll likely invest in a lot of small items rather than a few big ones.
Appearance and demeanor: Ascetic, flattened affect. Capable of being gracious but his default mode is condescension. Cool headed, cold blooded mastermind type. Likes out-thinking enemies, and is good at it.
Strength: studies enemies carefully in advance, meticulous planner
Weakness: a bit vain, can't resist a good gloat
Quirks: eats and drinks very sparingly, but loves his insect collection. (Butterflies, beetles. For flavor, you could have him interrogate a captive sometime while preparing a new specimen.) When discussing such, may almost forget to be a condescending mastermind and briefly become almost human. (It doesn't last.) Characters who can make a DC 20 Knowledge (nature) check can keep up with him for d6 minutes, with some minor game effects -- +2 to reaction rolls, or -2 to his perception because he's distracted, or whatever.
Tactics: Greatly prefers to catch enemies by surprise and prebuff (Mage Armor, Mirror Image, Invisibility on another party member, Summon Monster, Minor Image for a more powerful monster or something equally alarming). If possible, will place himself where he can't easily be meleed (up a ledge or balcony, on the other side of a stream, behind a portcullis/gate); failing that, he'll make sure to have a meat shield or two between himself and harm.
Likes opening with Color Spray (which at DC 17 is pretty powerful). May then target low Will save characters with Cause Fear and Burning Disarm. May Grease the area in front of him if he thinks anyone might try to charge or move into melee. He'll optimize his tactics to work with whatever party members he's with.
He likes to save his Arcane Bond spell for emergencies. (Note that he has a large selection of spells to choose from! So he can deal with a wide range of situations. For instance, Arcane Bond -> Liberating Command is his anti-grapple tactic.)
If you have a mature group that is interested in including romantic attachments in the game, you can push rivalry w/ the PC's "opposite" through competing for the affections of potential girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse/whatever.
Non-lethal competitions could be an option, too. The anti-fighter tops the PC at a tournament, the Cleric's faith "wins" some kind of rivalry with the anti-cleric's faith, like converting the king, whatever makes sense.
Whatever motivates the PCs, THAT is where you create a rival.
I love the idea of a 'nemesis party' and have used one myself in a campaign where the players got up to 16th level. The bad guys showed up as henchmen to a stronger foe around 5th level and reappeared often throughout their campaign.
Its membership varied, both in number and personnel, often to reflect the party's shifting make-up or the fact that a member had been killed or captured and on one occaision to add a new enemy they'd made, but the leader of the group, the one it always kept coming back to was a female half-elven Summoner. What was great about her was that she could be the party buffer while her eidolon wrecked havoc (it was nice turning that around on some of our players), but if the eidolon was killed, she could flee with no harm done - he'd be back to fight another day.
I HIGHLY reccomend that you replace your Alchemist with a Summoner for those very reasons, and your group looks light on buffers which is the best way to keep your party from wiping them.
Wiggz, good point about the summoner. I will note, though, that a bomber alchemist who gets his buffs up first is a truly terrifying opponent (who is also damnably hard to catch). A bomber is a tactical threat that can't be ignored; the party has no choice but to scatter, attack the bomber, or both.
At this point I've replaced the bomber with the summoner. I was plannig on doing an Evoker, but the illusionist you've created is pretty appealing. I might just switch. I do particularly like the role playing aspects you have, those will be retained regardless of his school.
I deliberately made Evocation one of his opposition schools because he looks down wizards who are blasty. It's lowering yourself to the level of an alchemist or a magus or -- lip curl -- a sorceror.
He'd rather charm you, fool you, stun you, blind you, trip you up, terrify you, or summon something to pound hell out of you. But directly inflicting hp damage? It's beneath his dignity. He has people for that.
one of the things one of my favorite DMs was really good at was creating rivals for us - it was almost never started with combat. he would always try and build a relationship between the PC and his rival to be, often having them travel with the party for a time or what have you. one rival of my fighter at the time talked lots of smack, and challenged me to a non-lethal duel, which he managed to win through some connivery even though he was a HD or two behind me. which only fed the desire to one up the guy of course!
they would annoyingly save your bacon occasionally, or help out when you were in a bind. they were almost always bastards, but there was always enough ambiguity in the relationship, be it past debts or needing him for something coming, to prevent our 'murderous hobo' tendencies from taking over. we always took great relish in rubbing their faces in it whenever we had the upper hand, or they needed something from us.
they would drive you crazy but so much fun. if or when it did come to blows, there was often motivation on both sides for it not to end in death. if your rival party is strictly evil then its much easier for the PCs to feel justified in chopping heads.
Ooh, I really like that! I hadn't even thought of making them non-evil except for one or two. But if maybe one one was evil and the rest were just neutral a@&&%!~s, that could work even better. I'm really more interested in the interaction than the combat.
If you're really more interested in the interaction, then here's a thought. Take the evil wizard and swap Spell Focus (Illusion) for Breadth of Experience. This will give him an eye-popping +2 on all Knowledge checks, raising his numbers to +14 for Spellcraft and Nature and +11 for everything else. Now make him repeatedly know stuff that the PCs don't, but need to. (He may have a sideline going as a knowledge broker.) Meanwhile, make it clear that he's lived for centuries and has plots in motion going back for decades.
The NPC party members can fall into two groups: one or two who are deeply loyal to him (he saved their life, what have you) and the rest who owe him a favor.
Non-evil characters? Okay, starting the Zen Archer monk.
LN Human
Monk (3) Zen Archer
Str 12
Con 12
Dex 14
Int 10
Wis 18
Cha 8
Fort +4
Ref +5
Will +9
-- 20 point buy, racial on Wis.
AC 17 (+4 Wis +2 Dex +1 Dodge)
20 hp (favored class)
Attacks: this depends on a bunch of things, but if we make him a longbow specialist with a +1 longbow then he can flurry all day long at +6/+6 for d8+1 damage; add +1 to hit and damage if he's within 30 feet (and don't forget Perfect Strike 3x/day).
Feats: he gets two for level, one for human, and two monk feats. Let's see... Dodge, Deflect Arrows, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and... oh, Mobility is tempting, but let's say Iron Will. That gives him a pretty impressive +9 Will Save (+11 vs. enchantments thanks to Still Mind). If he survives, he can maybe go up the Mobility/Shot on the Run line.
Character sketch: this guy is a bit naive and unworldly. Something of a prodigy, sent to the monastery at a very young age. May be very religious. The low Cha comes across as him being a bit shy and hesitant. (The shyness disappears as soon as combat starts.)
Lots of ranks in Acrobatics, Climb, Swim, Perception, and Escape Artist... but none in Sense Motive; he tends to believe what people tell him.
He can meet the PCs in an archery contest, or maybe they can rescue him from a mugging or something. He's not a bad guy, at all, and there's no reason he couldn't be friends with the PCs. But: he's going to end up working for someone who /is/ bad, or anyway directly opposed to the PCs. And, honorable LN character that he is, he'll have to fight them to the best of his ability. Which is considerable. He'll ask them very politely to back off, explain that duty compels him, tell them how sorry he is... and then start pincushioning them.
Note that the monk is pretty pathetic in melee: he gets a single unarmed strike at +3 for d6+1.
But! put him somewhere hard to reach with melee? Like, say, up on a rooftop? (Hey, ranks in Climb!) Well, then he's a serious menace. Deflect Arrows makes him hard to hurt with missile attacks, and his saves and high touch AC make him hard to hurt with spells.
Douglas: I already have the zen archer statted out. Really everyone is done now that you've given me the wizard. But as far as character behavior and such, I like what you've got for the monk.
At this point, only role-playing considerations are important, unless somebody has a truly phenomenal idea for a character. Here's the rival party:
Spoiler:
Duergar Fighter: Polearm master, uses a bill with the intention of being good against mounted foes (aka the cavalier).
Human Zen Archer: Very similar to what Douglas proposed.
Elf Illusionist Wizard: Exactly what Douglas proposed.
Dhampir Arcane Duelist: Cocky, seductive lady; she's gonna piss off the magus (a female elf with a slight interest in the ranger) to no end.
Kobold Summoner: Kobold because I really want a Kobold in the party. Deal with it. The eidolon is a quadruped, looks like a dragon. Bite, claws, wings, etc.
Drow Oracle: Flame - will be instant enemy/rival with the elf cleric. (There was a half-drow in the arty previously, but he was kicked out by the cleric. Nobody liked the character, even his player, so it was all good).
Duergar Fighter: maybe have him be one of the two evil characters? Very loyal to the elf, perhaps? Note that his Invisibility and Enlarge Person add extra fun, especially if played cleverly.
The Arcane Duelist: have her be N or CN, and loosely affiliated with the elf? Any bard would find him interesting to talk to. Possibly they met while he was trying to track down a long-lost collection of beetles, or some such. He's not the boss of her, but they've worked together to their mutual profit. (What motivates her? Money, knowledge, fun, in no particular order.)
The kobold: I'm seeing this guy not as evil, but as peppery and hot-tempered. Maybe he's friends with one of the other NPCs -- the Arcane Duelist, perhaps? And most of the time, she keeps him from losing it. -- This is a character it would be easy to underestimate; let the PCs see him casting a cantrip or summoning a rat or something, so that they think he's a hireling or mascot or something. Give him a vaguely Donald Duck-ish voice and show him throwing a tantrum: razza frazza! Have the PCs thinking comic relief. (If the eidolon is around, emphasize that it looks harmless and seems slow and stupid. See if you can get them thinking "weird riding beast from some distant jungle" rather than "outsider". Then when it's finally time to throw down, the creature opens its mouth to reveal multiple rows of sharklike teeth...
On that Kobold Summoner, is he a normal summoner or a Master Summoner?
Cos if you build him as a Master Summoner, you can have a ready source of monsters to call up against the PC party.
The Rival Party seems to lack any real tankers or cannon fodder. Which is a role that a Master Summoner can easily cover. (More so then even a standard summoner.)
For example, if you need the Rival Party to retreat, just make sure that the Master Summoner don't have his Eidolon out. Since a Master Summoner can have as many summons out as he can use per day, he can always keep some hidden away as "back up".
If the Rival party needs to retreat, just have these "back up" summons, say 1-4 dogs/riding dogs, come running out of the trees to block the way of the PC's Party. Riding dogs even have trip.\
As for the Eidolon being half lv of a normal summoner, just make it a scout type and use it as a spy to spy on the PC's Party. OR even as a plot device.
Just wanting to point out the advantages of a Master summoner for a NPC Rival Party.
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On another note, why is there an Elf and a Drow in the same party? I thought those 2 races would hate each other???
On another note, why is there an Elf and a Drow in the same party? I thought those 2 races would hate each other???
I don't know what Jack has in mind for the drow, but the elf is an evil bastard who probably doesn't get along with other elves all that well. I would guess he spent some decades in the Underdark, seeking knowledge -- consistent with the Breadth of Experience feat, right? -- and maybe picking up some rare beetles as well. And while there, he picked up the duergar as a follower, and maybe made contact with the drow.
The way I'm thinking, only the elf and the duergar are really evil. And I don't even think they're gonna start out as truly evil. The cover story of the group is that they are al outcasts from their evil societies, and that's actually true in some respects. While they may not be seeking good, they certainly aren't evil, at least not yet. If something happens to change their alignment, then so be it. Their experiences are such that they are all susceptible to that. But it's probably something they really do struggle with. And they're all jerks to seem degree.
Jack, I like your thinking. Let's see. The NPCs should have vulnerabilities or character traits that could turn them towards evil, but there should also be ways for the PCs to keep them from doing so...
Kobold -- hot-tempered (maybe he wears a ridiculous, much battered hat; when angry, he'll throw it on the ground and stomp on it), prickly and sensitive about being a kobold. Really loves animals -- he may yell at PCs to be kind to their horses, familiars, etc. (One expects this from druids, not a kobold with a silly hat.) His eidolon is a dopey-looking, mild-tempered creature, though just as dangerous in a fight as any other eidolon; he thinks it represents his bond with the natural world and is very sensitive about it.
How he goes evil -- mock him, don't take him seriously, kill his eidolon. (Yeah, it comes back, but he'll never forgive the insult.)
Dhampir bard -- cocky, seductive. I'm thinking CN? Fun-loving, hedonistic, risk-taker. Amoral but not actually wicked. She's looking for a good time and may find it with a male PC... but she's kind of a jerk; e.g. may disappear for days without notice, then suddenly turn up with another guy (and be offended if the PC has a problem with it). Also, she's greedy... not ridiculously so, but you can't really trust her to keep a deal. Will try to claim more than her share of treasure, and get ticked if she's called on it.
How she goes evil -- call her on being a jerk, try to impose rules on her.
Here's a thought. Maybe the elf is trying to put together a team. But he is evil, and he'd prefer people who are either evil or who have handles he can use to manipulate them -- greed, fear, need for revenge, what have you. So he's quietly maneuvering in the background to make stuff happen. If the PC ranger's relationship with the dhampir goes bad? One of them will be pissed off enough to join Team Evil. The kobold is humiliated? Now he's a good recruit too.
Those are exactly the kinds of things I was looking for. That's pretty much what I was planning for said characters with some differences. I was thinking about making the Kobold very sensitive about his size and his relationship to dragons--his eidolon looks like a dragon. I really like the idea of it being dopey looking too, so it's basically a a goofy dragon thing. He does not handle slights against his eidolon well. Basically, the elf is actually friends with the duergar, but everyone else he's trying to manipulate and turn to his own evil ends. And I want him to really care about the duergar, unlike the other people in his group. He may be an evil bastard, but I like a villain that truly cares for and loves his family/friends.
-- First, though, a quick thought about illusions. Illusions can be incredibly powerful! They're long range (560 feet, at this level) and can be huge (eight 10' cubes) -- you can do an illusion of a platoon of orcs, or a huge dragon, or an iron golem. Or of a wall, or a pit, or a small house, or a mysterious glowing glyph that floats in the air making a soft humming noise. You can use them to terrorize, distract, divide, or just mess with your enemies.
But they have a weakness. It's not the save -- that only kicks in if someone interacts physically with them, and for this guy it's a very respectable DC 17 or 18. No, the great weakness of illusions is that they're useless as soon as someone knows they're facing an illusion. The great enemy of illusionists is the spellcraft check. If the elf casts Minor Image, it's just a lousy 15 + spell level = DC 17 Spellcraft check to know what he's doing. A first level wizard with Int 16 and a single rank in Spellcraft will make that check 55% of the time.
So, to get maximum value from illusions, use them as set pieces in places where the elf can cast them in advance, out of sight of the party. (Remember, they last concentration +4 rounds.)
Example: PCs visit the elf for the first time. He knows they're coming, so he casts Minor Image when they knock on the door. When they walk in to his study, there's... oh, say an 8-foot tall praying mantis in a corner. Emphasize that it's a Large creature that looks totally badass, covered with spiky armor and with jaws that could crunch through a human head. As the elf greets the PCs, mention that the mantis keeps staring at them. As they sit down, mention that it's drooling a little. Then it raises its claws and starts to slowly stalk forward... and the elf says, "What? You filthy creature, I just fed you yesterday! Back! Back!" As the mantis cowers away from him, the elf opens a door and shoos it out. "Bad girl! No kittens for you! Bad!" Shuts door, dusts hands. "Please excuse me. She's been a little difficult since her last molt. She's just grown wings, you see, and I think she needs more exercise, but that's hard to manage here in town. Now, you had a question..."
Later, when and if the PCs fight the wizard, he can have the illusionary mantis -- big as a horse and flying on whirring, membranous wings -- buzz the party. Trust me, it will get their attention.
The Duergar: This guy is dour and unpleasant, evil from the start. If he has a motivation, it's that he hates "pretty boys". Handsome knights in shining armor, prancing about on their noble steeds... it makes him sick. There's nothing pretty about combat. Glory, chivalry, these things are meaningless. War is a trade. A grim, , bloody, dirty trade. A trade he personally happens to be quite skilled at. There's nothing glorious or noble about combat. He'll be happy to demonstrate the point by shoving a pole-arm through your gut. There: not so pretty now, hey?
He pretty much hates everyone, but he especially dislikes high-Cha characters and anyone who seems to be enjoying themselves. A laughing cavalier on his noble steed? A bard who sings of adventure? He'll particularly enjoy killing them. Killing them slowly, given the chance -- the duergar has a sadistic streak. (He's not stupid about it, though. He likes taking prisoners so he can torture them at his leisure, but he won't take major risks in order to do so.)
He serves the elf because the elf saved his life, and he's LE -- he has a dark, grim code of honor. And over time he's come to respect the elf as much as he can respect anyone. The elf has treated him fairly. And the elf, he knows so much! and is such a ruthless bastard!
The elf, meanwhile, has a strange sort of affection for the duergar. He's a loyal ally, utterly reliable. And his bitter cynicism, his grim contempt for pretty much everything... are strangely soothing. Standing next to him, the elf feels mellow, sane, and well-adjusted.
Within the NPC party, I'd expect him and the dhampir to rub each other the wrong way, and be constantly on the edge of murderous violence.
Spontaneously : Fled after stepping on a spider... or rather the Golarion equivalent. Maybe a more mercenary drow to begin with, he flees to the underdark and meets the elf, before or after the duergar is saved ?
perhaps you could give the drow some relatively noble cause that he is working towards - or at least using as an excuse - just that he has taken 'the end justifies the means' to extremes perhaps. kinda like vaarsuvius in OOTS.
beloved wife being held hostage or something. (more OOTS plagarism).
gives him a bit of a human element that might engender some mercy in your PCs. he probably wouldnt talk about it openly, but it might come out at a convenient time, ie to save his butt.
Aw. Thanks, man. I lost my campaign a couple of months ago (moved to a different country) so this is the closest I can come right now.
Okay, so the drow. Drow love spiders, right? And what do we know about spiders and their webs? They burn, baby, they burn. So a drow who suddenly becomes an Oracle of Flame is unlikely to find understanding and acceptance among his brethren. So he's been driven out, barely escaping with his life.
I don't know which curse you picked, but personally I'd go for Wasting. Not rotting, though -- more like withering. The drow appears emaciated, desiccated, like he's gradually being consumed from withing. He's always running a fever -- his eyes are too bright and his skin is hot to the touch.
If you don't want him to start off being evil, then try this: The poor SOB is half maddened and distracted by his mystery. He's socially maladjusted (still hasn't figured out life in the Overbright) and basically angry at the world. Not peppery, funny, stomp-on-my hat tantrums like the kobold, but feverish frustration and rage. Think "misunderstood monster", perhaps with a dash of "why won't they LISTEN to me?" (Uhh, because you're a drow? and also because you're suffering -4 on Cha checks because you're all wasted and creepy looking?) He may be trying to, well, burn off some frustration by setting fires to fallow fields or abandoned buildings. So far, this hasn't led to any casualties, but obviously this isn't something that can be allowed to continue.
If there's a PC who worships a god with fire domain, that PC could perhaps reason with him. A PC who's naturally sympathetic may want to reach out to a creature who's obviously in pain. But he's dangerously unstable... and the evil elf knows all about drow, and about oracles, and will know exactly which buttons to push.
Did you ever read the book _The Stand_, by Stephen King? Flagg and the Trashcan man? Hang on a second...
Quote:
He who Is - the dark man, the hardcase. He waited for Trashcan Man in Cibola, and his were the armies of the night, his were the white-faced riders of the dead who would sweep out of the west and into the very face of the rising sun. They would come raving and grinning and stinking of sweat and gunpowder. There would be shrieks, and Trashcan cared very little for shrieks, there would be rape and subjugation, things about which he cared even less, there would be murder, which was immaterial...
...and there would be a Great Burning.
About that he cared very much. In the dreams the dark man came to him and spread out his arms from a high place and showed Trashcan a country in flames. Cities going up like bombs. Cultivated fields drawn in lines of fire. The very rivers of Chicago and Pittsburgh and Detroit and Birmingham ablaze with floating oil. And the dark man had told him a very simple thing in his dreams, a thing which had brought him running: I will set you high in my artillery. You are the man I want.
Good, I was planning on making him a flame oracle. I had him haunted instead of wasting curse, but I like the way you describe that and it would probably lead to too much conflict of interest with such high charisma all over the place if that weren't the case.
Okay, two things left. First, let's flesh out the elf a bit and sketch out his advancement. If he's going to be a recurring antagonist, he'll need to level up!
I'd give him the trait that's "Bluff is a class skill, +1 to Bluff". He has a couple of ranks in Bluff and +1 Cha, so that would raise his Bluff to a respectable +7. He'll throw a rank at it every other level or so... the goal here is to keep him a plausible smooth-talking liar. Other traits, season to taste -- Wasp Whisperer could work, if you want him to be an ex-Calistrian.
Levelling up: 5th level, he'll get three third level spells -- two plus an illusion. Strong candidates for the two would be Suggestion, Summon Monster III, Haste, and Fly. For the illusion, either Major Image or Loathsome Veil (it's basically a stronger Color Spray). Note that his choices will affect his lower level spells; if he takes SM III he'll probably swap out SM II for something else, and same-same for Loathsome Veil and Color Spray.
At 6th level he'll just add another of these (and a 1st level spell too, I do believe).
Skills, he'll max out Knowledge (Arcana), Spellcraft and Perception. Otherwise he'll continue to sprinkle skill points around.
Feats, he gets two at 5th level. He'd probably choose from SF (Illusion), SF (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, or an item-crafting feat, most likely wands.
Stuff: he'll invest in an Int-boosting item at 5th level. (The free skill ranks will probably go into Fly.)
Otherwise, he'll continue to live in a nice house, collect bugs, plot and scheme, and assemble teams of bad guys to beat up the PCs.
I think a good potential plot for him would be to try and corrupt the party. The ranger has been infected with lycanthropy (wererat), and he has a month until it manifests. If the elf could discover this, it could be something he'd want to take advantage of.
Well, I said there were two things. This is the second: if you're going to have a rival / evil party of six NPCs, and you want each one to be at least somewhat interesting, you'll want to work things out a bit in advance. Just throwing all these strange people at the PCs will overwhelm them and lead to NPC fatigue pretty quickly.
My suggestion here would be to take a few minutes and write down a few events that can happen with each NPC -- the PCs hear of the NPC, PCs one or more PCs interact with the NPC, what have you. Generate at least one but not more than three or four events for each one. So, for instance:
Oracle -- PCs hear of mysterious fires; PCs notice hooded figure slipping through dark streets and then a minute later a fire breaks out; PCs meet drow
Kobold -- PCs see strange beast in stables of inn; PCs see kobold being mocked by crowd (dhampir tries to calm him)
Elf -- PCs get a message from the elf introducing himself and suggesting a meeting; PCs first meeting with elf
Dhampir -- PCs see hott bard performing somewhere; PCs talk to/interact with hott bard; PCs see bard with kobold
So then you set up an urban adventure -- a short one -- that breaks down into short pieces that we'll call A, B and C. Maybe it's "A -- Important local guy asks PCs to help find missing person or item. B -- a fairly easy investigation reveals that the missing person or item is probably at the abandoned Temple of So-and-So. C -- a visit to the abandoned temple leads to a very short (like, 3 or 4 rooms) dungeon crawl." Or whatever. If you're on an urban adventure path module, most of them break down into little pieces like this.
So then you sprinkle the NPC encounters in among the rest of the adventure. From the PCs POV, it should go something like this:
PCs hear of mysterious fires
PCs see strange creature in stables of their inn
A happens
PCs see hott bard
PCs see cloaked figure
B happens
PCs talk to hott bard
PCs get note from elf
C happens
PCs see kobold being mocked
-- you get the idea. The point is to have the players thinking that A-B-C is the main plot thread, when in fact it's just a framework on which you can hang the introductions to the NPCs. Also, if the ABC plotline has a clock on it -- the PCs must recover the McGuffin by midnight on Tuesday, or else -- then that will help you control how involved they get with the NPCs. (Or at least how soon they get involved.)
As for the elf discovering it: he has +9 Knowledge (Local) and a 20 Int, and he's likely been here in the town for decades -- I see him as owning a small town house with a library, study, and lab. (He probably blackmailed or murdered someone for it, years ago.) So, if the PCs had a scrap with the wererats, maybe he's heard about it. The PCs are obviously rising stars, so he'll take an interest... after years of patient waiting, his plans are moving towards fruition, and he knows he'll need some henchmen.
Lycanthropy: well, that would be covered under either Knowledge (Arcana) or Knowledge (nature) -- both skills that he's maxed out at +12. So it's perfectly plausible that he'd figure out what's going on.
If you already have a dramatic scenario planned for the PCs transformation, then go for it. But if you don't, here's a thought. Have a pleasant first meeting where the elf expresses friendly interest in the PCs. Then have him invite the infected PC for dinner, alone -- emphasis alone; private business, mano a mano -- on the night of the full moon. When the PC shows up, they'll have a nice glass of wine... which will be drugged to attack the PC's most important stat, or his Con, or both. Then the elf, the duergar, and maybe the dhampir will jump the PC, subdue him, chain him up securely and lock him in a room ch. Everyone will figure he's going to be tortured or kidnapped... until half an hour later when the moon rises.
If the rest of the party tags along, that's fine too. Let them storm the town house to rescue their friend. Then let the elf explain that he's just trying to help... your friend was bitten by a lycanthrope... I recognize certain subtle signs... terrible danger... the moon will rise in just twenty-three minutes... please, please let him help!
(Does the player know that he failed his save and has lycanthropy? The foregoing assumes not.)
