Flame oracle, Gaze of Flames revelation

[Dingleberry]

Does the rounds per day limit apply only the clairvoyance ability, or also the ability to see through fire/fog/smoke? I read it as the former, since there's no activation action listed (e.g., "As a swift action, you can...") as most of the other rounds per day revelations have. Thoughts?

[submit2me]

You can see through fire, fog, and smoke without penalty for a number of rounds per day equal to your oracle level. At 7th level, you can also gaze through any source of flame within 10 feet per oracle level as if using clairvoyance. It uses up the same pool of times per day equal to your oracle level as the first part of the ability. You thought correctly. =)

Also, unless otherwise noted, activating the power of a revelation is a standard action. It's the same for cleric domain powers as well.

[Dingleberry]

submit2me, what are you basing that on? The way you've phrased it would be clear, but that's not what it says in my hard copy or the PRD:

Gaze of Flames (Su): You can see through fire, fog, and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient to allow you to see normally. At 7th level, you can gaze through any source of flame within 10 feet per oracle level, as if using clairvoyance. You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to your oracle level, but these rounds do not need to be consecutive.

[Corrik]

I've always read it as the seeing through fire, fog, and smoke as a constant effect and the clairvoyance as being limited to the number of round equal to your oracle level.

[Globetrotter]

Corrik, that's how I see it too

[DrDeth]

Same here.

[submit2me]

I'm basing it on common sense. The same that you seem to have as well. Just because the rounds per day is tacked on at the end doesn't mean that it only applies to the last thing mentioned. The part gained at 7th level is just an improvement, but the rounds per level applies to the entire ability. If the first part was an always-on ability, I think that it would be made more explicitly clear.

Either way you interpret it, it's not like it being an always-on ability is game-breaking when you have races with low-light vision and darkvision. Especially since it only works when the light is sufficient to see normally in the first place.

[Dingleberry]

submit2me, per my original post, I actually agree with Corrik, Globetrotter and DrDeth, so I the "common sense" argument doesn't work for me. I do agree with you, however, that it's not a game-breaking ability even if it is always on.

I'm toying with a gestalt flame oracle/rogue with a primary tactic of casting obscuring mist and then sniping for sneak attack damage. At first I was worried that an enemy could just run out of the mist, but then I realized that it should work just as well for the PC cast it around himself rather than the target.

[Sir Ophiuchus]

Jason Buhlman clarified it. First part is always on.

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz1s0c?Duration-of-Revelations-Misread#0

[Thefurmonger]

Ok, I have a real basic question on the second part.

At 7th level, you can gaze through any source of flame within 10 feet per oracle level, as if using clairvoyance.

So Say I am 7th level.

I am standing 70' away from someones campfire and I can look around from the fire?

OR

I am in a dungeon, I look into a torch and can then use Clairvoyance as the spell? (for up to 7 rounds)

I'm sure others will say this is not a question, but to me it is.

[Sir Ophiuchus]

As written, it means that you can choose to see (but not hear) out of any flame within range.

You can certainly roleplay that you look into a flame you have beside you to do that, but it's not necessary. (If it helps, you are the flame you gaze into to establish sympathy.)

So yes, the campfire example would work. GM discretion on whether you can look through a source of flame you don't know exists, though I'd allow reasonable guesses:

- So the assassins are conferring upstairs in the inn?
- Yep.
- Cool, I'll spy on them with gaze of flame.
- What makes you think they have a fire in the room?
- Nothing. But I'm pretty damn sure they'll have a lamp or a candle.
- ...

[Thefurmonger]

Got ya, thats awesome.

Thanks for the clarification.