Hi, so I've lurked around these boards for quite some time and myself and my gaming group have come to the general census that stalwart defender is underpowered unless you really optimize a build around it. Recently I came across a very over-powered feat - Antagonize. I've read several posts about this feat and I agree it is generally a ridiculous feat especially when used against casters and in conjunction with intimidate.
My idea was this - To utilize Antagonize in conjunction with the Stalwart Defender prestige in order to do what the class was meant to - Tank. The goal would be to goad both casters and melee bosses into closing with you, even when it wouldn't be in their best interest. I believe that using this feat in this manner, it could make the prestige class more useful, as well as keeping the Antagonize feat from becoming overly cheesy.
Any opinions on this would be useful, as well, I wouldn't mind if someone could come up with a Stalwart Defender build, preferably a Dwarf. Again the emphasis is on tank ability, which means either DPR or stickiness in order to keep the monsters on you.
Stalwart defenders can get really high AC and DR. They are also good at controlling parts of a battlefield. If you want to focus more on damage then it is better to not take it.
I've got a weird idea for one, although probably not best as a dwarf although it could be done.
Arcane Duelist/Stalwart Defender
Plus side. Bloodthirst for a +2 bonus that stacks. You can easily sing while you defensive stance. You get the delightful ability to heal yourself a little higher than 5d8 once per day. You can cast in medium armor insert mythril full plate free combat feats that help shutdown casters for after they nerf antagonize. And the ability to kick up skill checks a little bit and don't forget dirge of doom to drive that chance of hitting you a little lower. Inspire greatness more hp tank lives longer. Overall benefit most of these abilities don't require a high charisma. Never having to worry about finding haste or making sure the caster remembers you can use it as well. They probably aren't going to hit you anyway when you cast spells and even if they do so what?
Downsides
Slightly lower bab, possible MAD problem if you play on diving into higher end spell casting, huge feat shortage, and you have to take stalwart defender at 11 as opposed to 8.
I'd probably keep cha at least at 15 and grab either str or con from eldritch heritage so that as soon as you hit defender time you snag a +2 boost that gets better from there.
@wraithstrike - I understand the loss of damage potential in taking the Stalwart defender Prestige, I'm simply looking for a way to make the monster believe the un-moving, over armored, too hard to hit fighter, is still a better target than the ungeared, bare chested, totally 1 biteable wizard. Hence the either DPR or stickiness. I'm thinking a reach weapon in culmination with the Halting Blow Class ability. Possibly also with quick draw and lunge. Eventually utilizing unexpected strike.
@Jak - To be honest Jak, the Bard/Stalwart sounds like a neat RP idea, but functionally doesn't seem like he'll accomplish alot. My inspire would be that of a 10th level bard my entire career. My spells would never make it past 10th, and I'm still left with the real problem of forcing a monster to fight me. Without a high enough CL or save DC's my spells just arn't a very real threat. I don't really have any way of being that problematic force that just seems like its too annoying not to eat.
My post was very vague, I'll help out in specificity to fuel peoples ideas!
Gregg of Many Axes
Dwarven Stalwart Defender
Fighter 7 (Phalanx)/ Stalwart Defender 6
Weapons - Bardiche, Dwarven Waraxe, Several Handaxes
Feats - Power Attack,Toughness, Endurance, Diehard, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Dodge,Quickdraw, Antagonize,Lunge, Combat Reflexes
Defensive Powers - Bulwark, Halting Blow, Unexpected Strike
Combat Items - Lesser Restore Pots x alot
Skills - Intimidate
Basically, Gregg here, would charge the BBEG right out the gate, next gregg would begin his defensive stance. If BBEG continues to stay in melee with Gregg, then we've succeeded. Depending on the reach of said enemy, Gregg either uses his 1 handed Bardiche, or his Dwarven Waraxe. If said BBEG with 10ft reach, decides he's going to cheese us by giving us 1 full attack to his 2, then we'll switch to handaxes with quick draw, and still hit our full attack the next round. If BBEG sees through our clever plans and decides to withdraw once our defensive stance was engaged,we will then pull our bardiche and antagonize said BBEG so that he charges at us. Our AoO will be a halting blow and we will stop said enemy in our attack range. We will then use the immediate action Antagonize to prolong it 1 round, so we ensure ourselves at least 1 more full attack.
This is a very very rough outline, and no where near optimized. However, this is along the lines of the way I'd like to take this character. Granted, as I'm sure you can see, there are still many holes in the plan (Spring Attack, 15 ft reach, Flyby attack, multiple weapon dependence= expensive) Some of these problems are cured by the Lesser Restore Pots and moving,or are made less bad by lunge, but others I don't really know how to fix. Thanks for all future help!
Sarf the idea isn't to cast spells on the enemy. The idea is to buff yourself and your party and hit him. If you've a dwarf trying to enchant people with his singing voice you've probably done something wrong or at the least odd. I've also never had a problem of getting an intelligent monster to try to kill what is obviously a caster. This caster though is built to be very very sturdy and still do decent damage with melee.
It does sound like you're more interested in sole tank set up. If you're determined to pull that you really need to find a way to get rid of fatigue that is more turn efficient than lesser restore potions. As caedwr said Horizon walker is a good choice for getting rid of exhaustion. Also you'll have to watch for intelligent foes who'll take a withdraw action to stop your halting blow. And keep an eye on the rumor that they're going to change antagonize to allow for casters to use spells instead of closing for melee.
Caedwyr - I have seen both taking 1 level of Oracle to get the curse that grants fatigue immunity, as well as 3 levels Horizon Walker. Also the monk hat gets fatigue immunity. My problem, is my DM will never allow this type of cherry picking. Flavor before functionality is a pretty regular swap at our table. As such natural combat efficiency without cherry picking is a must.
Jak - I see your point, if I'm inspiring/hasting/heroisming the monster will inevitably have to deal with me. My issue isn't so much the melee prowess, its how do I contribute damage wise prior to being engaged. More than likely the party set up will be Arcane Caster/Divine Caster/Melee Fighter/+ me. If I engage the monster, there is nothing stopping him from just constantly 5 footing away from me. He will eat the fireball throwing mage before he eats the guy buffing. At least this is how our DM always plays them. Non intelligent mobs attack whatever did the most damage to them, and is in immediate range. Intelligent mobs attack the biggest threat, usually arcane casty or cleric. Full withdraw does absolutely nothing if I'm using a reach weapon and antagonize. You only ignore AoOs for your first square of movement, to move away he still walks through the bardiche AoO range, so he still gets stopped. I mean I guess next round he can full withdraw, but then I've nullified 3 rounds of his combat and taken 1 attack worth of damage. An excellent trade in my opinion. On a side note, I do really like the idea of Bard/Stalwart Defender, just need to find a way to keep him a threat so his massive AC doesn't go wasted. Do you think the battle herald prestige would be a beneficial route to go with it? Still buffing, moves into combat prowess a bit more. More ideas Jak, you and I will crack this dilemma!
At our table mobs dont miss very often. If their attacking someone for a round and their attacks arn't landing (bad roles or high AC) the mob will very frequently switch targets if it doesn't have a reason to stick. Lots of times its provoke 1 AoO or eat a round of full attacks, so the mob always provokes.
Have you thought about the Stonelord Dwarf Paladin from the ARG? I think it's pretty cool and it works really well with the SD.