So, if I have a single rank in use magic device, I can theoretically use a wand on a roll of 19 or 20, correct?
If I use the "guidance" orison, then I need to roll an 18 or better.
If I ever successfully cast a spell from a wand, can I now use that wand? Or do I have to make the skill check every time I try to use the wand?
1) if you do not have any modifiers beyond the skill rank
2) yes
3) you have to roll every time you wish to activate that wand with UMD
You're correct on the first two points.
Simply succeeding on a UMD check doesn't mean that you can automatically use an item at will thereafter; a successful skill check is needed for each activation. Having activated it once however, you gain a +2 bonus on all subsequent skill checks IIRC. So you could then activate it (with the guidance orison) on a roll of 16 or better.
Also, if you roll a natural 1 on your UMD check and fail to activate it, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
Hmmm....
Are there any druid available spells that would boost my UMD ability?
Until I started looking at this I didn't realize Eagle's Splendor (+4 cha) was not on the druid's list. I suppose the party cleric could hit me with it...
Any clever hints that would allow my 1 rank UMD druid to be able to use wands? (No, "invest in UMD ranks" would not qualify as "clever". Until she levels up again, that isn't an option.)
Also, if you roll a natural 1 on your UMD check and fail to activate it, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
Yeah, I know that. I'm trying to figure out how my druid can use "gravity bow."
Purchase a custom skill boosting item? My sorcerer's familiar uses a "Fetish of the Hedge Mage" which grants a +5 enhancement bonus to UMD skill checks and costs 2,500 gp.
Multiclass
Seriously, I say to not suggest investing ranks in UMD because I can't do that until I level up and you say "multiclass?"
I am researching the spell to add it to my list. I expect that will be successful. Th spell research guidelines suggest that will take a week and 1,000 gold. That seems like a lot better idea than "multiclass" to get one spell.
Speaking of spell research, thee guidelines in the core rulebook are quite vague, suggesting only that it should require multiple knowledge and spellcraft checks. What is the general technique GMs use to determine success in spell researching?
I don't believe you can research an existing spell to make it castable by a class that doesn't have it on their spell list. If that were the case, all spells would have long since been researched and have been added to every class. It defeats the purpose of a having a class spell list.
I don't see anything about not being able to research and learn spells from other classes. In fact the guidelines specifically mention "duplicating" a spell through research, an activity that would seem entirely pointless if the caster researching the spell already had access to the spell.
Is a +2 int hat with "UMD" as the bonus skill an option?
I guess without knowing what level you are, we don't know what options are in your price range.
Level 8 druid, roughly 2000 g
If you have a Wondrous Item crafter in your party, 2000 gp will pay the creation cost for a +2 headband of intellect. This assumes that you don't already have a wisdom hat that you are happy with.
If your DM allows psionics, perhaps you can find a psion in town willing to scramble your brains for the standard spellcasting fees (approx 280 gp, I think).
I don't see anything about not being able to research and learn spells from other classes. In fact the guidelines specifically mention "duplicating" a spell through research, an activity that would seem entirely pointless if the caster researching the spell already had access to the spell.
Duplication is of use to wizards who don't otherwise have a particular existing spell to copy but who want to add it to their spellbooks. Sometimes you just can't count on finding what you want.
Your GM has final say on the sorts of spells he'll allow your druid to research of course, but I know most GMs would quickly veto spells from other class' spell lists as a matter of course. What makes a druid's magic different is that it's nature focused. For example, researching spells such as teleport, raise dead and lightning bolt would only show that the spells tree stride, reincarnate and call lightning are the closest druidic equivalents achievable. There are some things nature magic simply can't be made to do. My ¢2.
But perhaps your GM is of a different opinion. No harm in asking.
take a trait to make UMD a class skill
isnt there a cheap item that gives +3 to CHA skill
headband as noted above...doesnt it give a HD bonus to a skill
lots way to mass up UMD
I don't see anything about not being able to research and learn spells from other classes. In fact the guidelines specifically mention "duplicating" a spell through research, an activity that would seem entirely pointless if the caster researching the spell already had access to the spell.Duplication is of use to wizards who don't otherwise have a particular existing spell to copy but who want to add it to their spellbooks. Sometimes you just can't count on finding what you want.
Your GM has final say on the sorts of spells he'll allow your druid to research of course, but I know most GMs would quickly veto spells from other class' spell lists as a matter of course. What makes a druid's magic different is that it's nature focused. For example, researching spells such as teleport, raise dead and lightning bolt would only show that the spells tree stride, reincarnate and call lightning are the closest druidic equivalents achievable. There are some things nature magic simply can't be made to do. My ¢2.
But perhaps your GM is of a different opinion. No harm in asking.
As a Gm, I would be inclined to agree with this, but in this instance he wants to research a spell from the Ranger's Spell List. I would imagine there is enough similarity between ranger and druid magic to allow this.
I could even imagine rangers learning the rudiments of spellcasting from druids in the first place. I would allow it in my campaign after proper researching and role-playing a ranger teaching it to you. As a matter of fact, this will probably be happening in my campaign soon as our druid seems to be favoring her longbow of late.
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-Circlet of Persuasion adds +3 competence bonus to all Charisma based skills, including UMD (4500 gp)
-Cracked Pink and Green Ioun Stone (from Seeker of Secrets) adds a +1 competence bonus to any one Charisma skill - doesn't stack with the Circlet but is much cheaper (200 gp)
-Heroism (which can be bought in potion form) adds a +2 morale bonus to all skill checks among other things. Many spells and abilities (like bardsong) can give morale bonuses, heroism is the easiest +2 that popped into mind. (costs 400 gp or 750 gp depending on whether it was made by a bard or a wizard)
-I can't find the post right now, but PFS allows Artisan's tools to be bought for UMD, which gives a +2 circumstance bonus (55 gp). Most GMs would limit this to when you're not actually in combat (but probably OK if you're setting up an ambush).
I would like to point at this tough:
"Use a Wand, Staff, or Other Spell Trigger Item: Normally, to
use a wand, you must have the wand’s spell on your class
spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as
if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. Failing
the roll does not expend a charge." - Pathfinder Core, p. 109
You only need to roll to use a Wand which as a spell you don't have on your character's class spell list. That is, you can freely use without a roll any wand with a Druid spell on it, even if you can't cast the spell yet due to your level (for as long as your Wisdom score is the minimun required to cast such spell).
Please point me to anything anywhere that indicates the rules as written, or any errata, or even any developer commentary online that says spell research should not allow spells from other classes to be researched. I have not seen anything beyond GM's comments to indicate anything to me but a specific GM decision.
I am perfectly fine with the idea, as stated in the rules, to avoid allowing spells which go against a class's general concept, such as "fireball" for a cleric or "cure serious wounds" for a wizard.
But I'm talking about a druid. Druids are intended to be competent in multiple roles. And I'm talking about a ranger spell, and rangers are in many ways sort of junior druids when it comes to spell casting. Frankly I don't understand why there are ANY ranger spells that are not also druid spells.
Druids routinely use their magic to buff weapons. "Shillelagh" is a druid fixture which does almost exactly the same things to staves that "gravity bow" does to arrows. "Badger's Ferocity" allows druids to buff weapons to add the "keen" property.
Why druids can enchant weapons, but not bows, makes no sense to me. Why a druid could not figure out how to enchant a bow after enchanting a staff in almost exactly the same way just doesn't make sense.
I appreciate all the advice on use magic device. My druid did purchase a gravity bow wand. Given any chance to know that she is going into combat, she'll just give it a go, and hope she can roll an 18. If she does, Yahoo!, if not, then oh well, nothing lost. If she ever DOES succeed, then for that wand her future tries will work on a 16. And on occasion I may be able to use some of the great advice here.
I appreciate all the advice on use magic device. My druid did purchase a gravity bow wand. Given any chance to know that she is going into combat, she'll just give it a go, and hope she can roll an 18. If she does, Yahoo!, if not, then oh well, nothing lost. If she ever DOES succeed, then for that wand her future tries will work on a 16. And on occasion I may be able to use some of the great advice here.
Don't forget that you could out more than one rank in a skill when you level up. Also, The wand only lasts one minute once you activate it, so you don't have much time to get into combat after you sucuccessfully activate it.
And the reason Druids don't get gravity bow already is almost certainly because they're not proficient with bows.
Wait, what? You can't put more than one rank in a skill when you level up. Cany you? Really? When did this start?
Well, my druid is proficient with bows. So if that was the reason druids don't have it, then that just increases the argument in favor of my druid learning it.
Purchase a custom skill boosting item? My sorcerer's familiar uses a "Fetish of the Hedge Mage" which grants a +5 enhancement bonus to UMD skill checks and costs 2,500 gp.
That sounds ideal for my scout eddy - do you have a link to it?
Purchase a custom skill boosting item? My sorcerer's familiar uses a "Fetish of the Hedge Mage" which grants a +5 enhancement bonus to UMD skill checks and costs 2,500 gp.That sounds ideal for my scout eddy - do you have a link to it?
It sounds like a custom magic item that he crafted with his GM.
Wow, that's awesome. I think I'll pump my massive total of FOUR skill points into UMD when I get to level 9! Oh heck, I'll throw in my favored class bonus skill point too.
:)
Actually, thanks. I'll look it up to confirm, but I truly thought you could only put one skill point per level, no matter what level you were.
Ha. I thought you were being sarcastic.
Honestly, I don't see anything in the rules that says either way. I guess we just assumed different answers. You think this is FAQ worthy?
Ha. I thought you were being sarcastic.
Honestly, I don't see anything in the rules that says either way. I guess we just assumed different answers. You think this is FAQ worthy?
It may be that RAI is that you can only put one skill point per level no matter what, but RAW doesn't seem to say that, and even though I never realized you could exploit that, I bet most other players have exploited that for years. So whatever the original intent, I bet even a FAQ would now say "go ahead and do it."
It's not an exploit. It's fully intended, has been that way since 3.0, and makes sense in terms of simulationism, too. Either you're a knack at X skill and train in it exceptionally fast after going through most of your life ignoring it; or you've devoted most of your time for the past level training in it, and thus it advances much faster than any other skill you put points in (if any) that level up.
Well, OK, but to someone who has always thought that you could only advance one skill one point per level, it sure FEELS like an exploit.
Give me time to get used to it. Heck, Now I'm probably going to exploit it at the first chance I get. I didn't see the advantage of druids using wands until now. Now I'm seeing lots of wands that could help my druid.
"True Strike" anyone?
Shield looks pretty attractive for use with wild shape. Have fun storming the castle. :)
yeah UMD is really great
My PFS oracle 7 has a massive bonus in it and given enough time can buff like crazy from various wands
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There are lots of reasons that having the ability to use wands or scrolls would be a nice thing for my druid.
There are times that our party is actually clever enough to either get the drop on the enemy, or at least control when an encounter starts. In those cases having gravity bow for nine rounds and true strike for the first arrow (which hits with two arrows with "manystrike") is a nice way to start the encounter.
Being able to cast "abundant ammunition" really opens up the world of magic arrows since you can cast as many "bane arrows" as you like with it.
I am a big fan of the "action economy," and while I completely understand that using a wand for a buff during combat is usually an action economy mistake, it's not ALWAYS an action economy mistake. And I like options.
Outside of combat being able to use wands and scrolls is just plain goodness.
Cantrip wands are cheap, cheap, cheap....
Probably over a third of the spells in the game are as or more useful outside of combat, and sorcerer/wizard spells are some of the best out-of-combat spells in the game.
Just something like "detect secret doors" would be a huge help for our party who seem to struggle with such a simple thing.
Abundant Ammunition only works on nonmagical ammunition.
Being able to cast "abundant ammunition" really opens up the world of magic arrows since you can cast as many "bane arrows" as you like with it.
Oops, that's right. My bad. I had it in my head that it duplicated magical effects, but that's only for enhancements cast on the arrows after the spell is cast. So "bane" isn't one of the effects that would work. But other magical effects would work.