Goblin Squad Member
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The original Ultima Online did a lot right. I think one thing that should definitely be looked at is the crafting system and trade skills. It was pretty fun just playing a tradesman and seeing others use your crafted items. It was also fun running a shop and selling your goods.
I suggest strong incentives for player ran economies.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree I think a lot of what makes UO so great would work very well within the Pathfinder Online concept/design. I also feel that what makes EVE online so great would also work well, a hybrid between the two would be great!
With that being said I have no real desire for a remake of either one, I would like to see Goblinworks take from both UO and EVE and create somthing entirely new and unique.
I think if they can assemble the right team this is well within there reach and im very excited to see what Goblinworks comes up with.
Chief Technical Officer
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For a minute, I thought we already had this thread. Turns out it was the opposite: ATTN: Goblinworks- For the love of god, do not make this game like Ultima Online.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Haha that's funny...
Goes to show the old saying "one mans junk is another mans treasure" relates to mmo's as well.
I love UO and still play from time to time but am really looking forward to Goblinworks creating a unique and different game with Pathfinder Online.
I just hope it's made with as much innovation and depth today as did UO in 97.
Goes to show the old saying "one mans junk is another mans treasure" relates to mmo's as well.
Was that meant to be a double-entendre? Cause it made me LOL.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My intention was not to use the same system as UO, but for PO to take a page from their concepts. I would like to see players have the ability to buy shop space in towns and sell their own wares. Let them set their own prices and let their items vary in quality depending on their skill.
Things like that makes it fun being a shop owner.
I hope Paizo can make a living breathing world. That was what always made D&D tabletop so special. Players had a lot of freedom.
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Goblin Squad Member
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LOL @Ambrus!
@BlackUhuru, the saying is "One man's trash is another man's treasure." It sounds better that way because of the consonance with the T's in "trash" and "treasure".
@Darkoak, I am very much looking forward to Ryan writing a blog about how the Market will work, not just for individual storefronts, but also with respect to showing transporters where goods need to move for them to profit. I think that blog will give us a lot to talk about, and it can't come soon enough. Some things that I would dearly love to see are physical stores where location matters (the storefront right by the gates of the city being the most sought-after place to showcase your wares); a Skill Tree that lets you get better at knowing what's available at the less-desirably located storefronts (somewhat like a Lore skill, maybe even localized for each hex or settlement, that gives you instant access to the buy and sell orders at the various stores in the area without having to directly visit them each and write it down on a notepad); and Eve-style Buy and Sell orders that we can look at to find ways to profit simply by transporting goods from one place to another.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for the tip Nostrus.
Another point I wanted to make about UO that could translate here is world ecology. UO never was able to pull this off, mostly due to the limiting technology available at the time, but it was a desire of Richard Garriott to include it.
Basically you could have a situation like so:
A dragon hunts and eats deer in a forest to the north.
A local lord in the village wants to upgrade his local militia from leather to studded leather armor, so he commissions people to bring the village masses of deer hides.
Once the deer stock is depleted in the northern forest, the dragon starts feeding on livestock further south near the village.
Now that the dragon is terrorizing the village, the local lord hires adventurers to take out the dragon.
Once the dragon is killed and its cave/treasure discovered and looted, a wandering hill giant family finds the abandoned cave and moves it.
The giants hunt the re-stocked deer population in the northern forest....
Anyway, you get where I am going with my simple example. A dynamic world with and active ecology. The world itself would create quests and adventures.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Another point I wanted to make about UO that could translate here is world ecology. UO never was able to pull this off, mostly due to the limiting technology available at the time, but it was a desire of Richard Garriott to include it.
Darkoak, my understanding is that the system was fully implemented, turned on, the players figured out how to exploit it, the ecology went haywire, and Origin turned it off.
There was a lot of stuff in UO that fell into that pattern. It's a b+*#% to be first.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My real problem with UO was that, at least when I tried it (which I think wasn't that long after launch), it provided zero protection for new characters.
I don't mind open world PvP, I do mind being ganked repeatedly within 5 minutes of creating your character before you even learn the controls or how the interface works let alone the real mechanics of how to play the game.
When I bought UO, I ended up being killed repeatedly within the first 5 minutes of logging on after having created a character. This happened on 3 seperate attempts to access the game server, spread out over the course of 3 days. After that it was cancel/uninstall.
I like what EQ1 (and LOTRO) did in that they offered essentialy a single player tutorial after first creating your character where you can at least learn the basic controls of how to work the interface and control your character/basics of playing the game before being thrown into the main world with other players. I also think that new players should be put in what is effectively a safe "gank free" zone when first entering the game world and be able to get a little experience interacting with other characters and maybe even some group based PVE combat experience without having to worry about being attacked by other players.
That way you at least have some basic understanding of what you are doing and how to play/fight before you run into anyone that is likely to attack you.
The new player experience is what UO got 100 percent wrong from my perspective.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I like what EQ1... did in that they offered essentialy a single player tutorial after first creating your character where you can at least learn the basic controls of how to work the interface and control your character/basics of playing the game before being thrown into the main world with other players.
EverQuest didn't do that until many years after Launch.
My own experience on a PvP server in EverQuest, before that was added, was being roughly level 4, walking out the gates of Felwithe, and being mercilessly killed over and over again by a level 10 caster. That experience was enough to overpower my innate desire to be in an open PvP world.
I crave a world where open PvP is possible, but has consequences. It should be something that you do to accomplish a goal. It should not be an end in itself.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't remember that at all, and I didn't start playing until after Ruins of Kunark was released. I do remember them adding something like that much later, though. Where you started out as a prisoner in a cell, and had to learn to control your character, etc.
Maybe I've played too many MMOs, and I'm getting them confused...
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The tutorial EQ had was a separate program, with a similar interface but different sysreqs. It ran locally. SWG used the same engine, putting you in your own instance. DCUO also uses a tutorial instance, which puts you as an escaped super(hero|villian) breaking out of a prisoner.
You also might be thinking about TES:4 Oblivion, where you start out in a prison cell and must complete tasks related to control to escape... it's a common enough trope used to limit player freedom. I think it could easily be set up as an (optional) test by the Pathfinder society, determining if they are willing to allow the PC to be a member. It stretches the lore only slightly that way...
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Goblin Squad Member
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For some reason, I'm remembering making a new Barbarian in EverQuest and appearing immediately as a Level 1 character in Halas.
I seem to remember EQ2 had a deal where you started out on a boat or an island or something, and then moved on to your home city after a bit..
*shrugs* Like I said, it all runs together. Maybe I was skipping the tutorial...
Ultima Online did alot of things right. I also believe that they can learn alot from Dark Age of Camelot. The mechanics on that game took player vs player combat a little deeper. Never the less, I'm just happy to see a developer finally doing the right thing, and not making another wow clone.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For some reason, I'm remembering making a new Barbarian in EverQuest and appearing immediately as a Level 1 character in Halas.
I seem to remember EQ2 had a deal where you started out on a boat or an island or something, and then moved on to your home city after a bit..
*shrugs* Like I said, it all runs together. Maybe I was skipping the tutorial...
Yeah, the everquest one was a different program, so many new players missed it. I remember ripping open the box, making a wood elf, and repeatedly falling off the wood elf city.... around 3-4 months in they decided that pvp started @ a certain level in your home zone(s) I think.
Goblinworks Founder
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Without some durability/charges to items, based on your crafting skills or the rarity of the item, people would just throw their junk items on a vendor to sit forever and take up space. That's where I think I liked Darkfall was items falling apart after so many uses.
That's what happened to Ultima Online there was hardly an easy way of getting rid of items without dying and the body decaying away with those items. Weapons/Armor was the only thing that actually had durability, rings/necklaces or shoes continued to work no matter how much their magic was used on you. Though I see jewelry with a flat bonus and not a use working as it should... unless you meet some monster that would drain the benefits of an item.
*Everquest memories... so many times falling off the sides of Kelethin.