Reach & Slam Evolutions

[Jelani]

I have two questions about Eidolons

1) If I have the bipedal eidolon base form, and I take the reach evolution for my claws, can I use those claws to make manufactured weapon attacks or unarmed strikes at reach? The evolution says "One of an eidolon’s attacks is capable of striking at foes at a distance. Pick one attack. The eidolon’s reach with that attack increases by 5 feet." Since the claws are on my arms, and my arms can be used to wield a weapon it would make no sense if the arms only had reach when they were being used to claw. What's the deal?

2a) If I take the slam evolution on an eidolon, and it's the only natural attack it has, does the slam add 1.5 times the Str modifier to damage? If not, do primary natural attacks only add 1.5 str to damage if they specifically say so? Even if they are the creature's only attack?
2b) Does the slam count as an unarmed strike for flurry of blows?

Thanks!

[bigkilla]

1.No, it is the attack that you specify when taking the evolution.

2a.yes it is 1.5 x STR damage

2b.No.

[Archaeik]

Well, 2 is easy.
UMR

2a Yes, it gets 1.5x str on that attack

2b No, natural weapons count toward being armed, so you cannot make unarmed attacks.
However, you can take Feral Combat Training to treat 1 type of natural weapon as if it were an unarmed strike for the purposes of feats and flurry

1. I do not believe the intent was to get additional reach with manufactured weapons, but I could be wrong.
However, it's not like it would change things very much since you can only take the reach evolution once.
Furthermore, it says ONE attack, so if applied to claws, it would be a single claw.

EDIT so there's no confusion
Eidolons

Evolutions wrote:

Each eidolon receives a number of evolution points that can be spent to give the eidolon new abilities, powers, and other upgrades. These abilities, called evolutions, can be changed whenever the summoner gains a new level, but they are otherwise set. Some evolutions require that the eidolon have a specific base form or the summoner be of a specific level before they can be chosen. A number of evolutions grant the eidolon additional natural attacks. Natural attacks listed as primary are made using the eidolon’s full base attack bonus and add the eidolon’s Strength modifier on damage rolls. Natural attacks listed as secondary are made using the eidolon’s base attack bonus – 5 and add 1/2 the eidolon’s Strength modifier on damage rolls (if positive). If the eidolon only has a single natural attack, the attack is made using its full base attack bonus and it adds 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier on damage rolls made with that attack, regardless of the attack’s type.

Evolutions are grouped by their cost in evolution points. Evolution points cannot be saved. All of the points must be spent whenever the summoner gains a level. Unless otherwise noted, each evolution can only be selected once.

[Jelani]

Archaeik said wrote:

2b No, natural weapons count toward being armed, so you cannot make unarmed attacks.

However, you can take Feral Combat Training to treat 1 type of natural weapon as if it were an unarmed strike for the purposes of feats and flurry

Thanks for pointing that out. Thanks both for your answers.

[Mauril]

Archaeik, thanks for pointing that out. For some reason I just assumed that the Reach evolution could be taken separately for each natural attack type (which is also who HeroLab runs it) and never noticed that it lacked that language. That really rather changes the eidolons I've built for my bad guys...

[Archaeik]

I found this thread that previously discussed the matter.

I'm pretty sure by RAW, it has to be 1 attack, but RAI is probably "1 evolution". The difference being that claws etc give you 2 attacks.

Now, I just posted a new thread about this because 2 of the models from UM seem to utilize Reach as if it works for all instances of 1 attack FORM....

for the record, I had glossed over this point too and assumed that reach was available multiple times.

[Mojorat]

when you take the reach evolution it applies to either a single attack ie slam horn tentacle etc. claws are lays treated as a pair so the reach evolution applies to the pair of claws.